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Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India

economist.com

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Re: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India

#91

Post by dang »

chkuendig wrote: post #7

Pretty heavily editorialized headline, not at all in the economists style. Original title: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India

Right, the submitted title ("Facebook's “free internet” programme is a cover for a land-grab") broke the HN guidelines by editorializing. That's bad. Submitters: please don't change titles unless they are misleading or linkbait (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html). If you want to present an argument, do so in the thread, on a level playing field with other users. On HN, submitting an article confers no special right to opine.

The subtitle ("Critics argue") would have been ok, but is less informative, and there's nothing wrong with the article's main headline, so we've put that in above.

Re: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India

#93

Post by rpgmaker »

yggydrasily wrote: post #17
devindotcom wrote: post #15

Personally, I believe Zuckerberg is sincere in wanting to connect everyone in the world with each other. However, I believe he is also sincere in thinking that Facebook is the best and perhaps only platform by which this is possible. In this he is sincerely mistaken. I feel sure he doesn't think of it as a land grab, even privately. But he is looking from the inside out. If he wants to be seen as the Great Connector,…

Zuckerberg is the new Bill Gates. In the 90s, Gates was notorious in his ruthlessness to define personal computing as a 100% Microsoft-only experience. Today, as you pointed out, Zuckerberg is pushing equally hard at defining the internet and Facebook to be one and the same. In both cases, it doesn't really matter whether or not the efforts are sincere. The outcome is just as undesirable for the general public either…

Actually, there's no reason to believe that his effort is sincere. His main company has a pretty bad track record of being sincere or upfront about anything it has ever done. Many on HN are sympathetic to him because he seems to be like us but he isn't. Like you said: he is more like 90s Bill Gates than he is like any of us.

Re: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India

#94

Post by funkyy »

Free internet is basically a deal that FB did with some carriers to provide some of their resources in exchange for some kick ass promises and possibly funds.

The easy way to do this for ANY government would be to force all wireless carriers to provide 200 MB free internet to all citizens in exchange for license to broadcast.

This happened once in Poland for example when government provided frequencies in exchange of forcing the company to provide unlimited, but slow internet to all citizens through mobiles.

Re: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India

#95

Post by tomphoolery »

devindotcom wrote: post #15

Personally, I believe Zuckerberg is sincere in wanting to connect everyone in the world with each other. However, I believe he is also sincere in thinking that Facebook is the best and perhaps only platform by which this is possible. In this he is sincerely mistaken. I feel sure he doesn't think of it as a land grab, even privately. But he is looking from the inside out. If he wants to be seen as the Great Connector,…

I think there's another motive at play, he's using 3rd-world countries as a proving ground for tiered Internet access. Facebook has already come out against net neutrality, and has billions of dollars to play with. Wouldn't it make sense for them to want to test their theories that have been shot down in their own country? Zuckerberg might be ostensibly altruistic about his lofty goal of bringing Internet access to everyone, but that's not the Internet we know and love. It's only the content that Facebook approves, and if you want more knowledge, you're gonna have to pay. That's not the Web I grew up with, and if I were Indian I would be trying my hardest to figure out a better solution that gives just the same amount of people access without them having to give up their freedom.

Re: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India

#96

Post by jrochkind1 »

dhawalhs wrote: post #65

Its important to note that WhatsApp is not part of Internet.org. The telecom providers in India are not happy with messaging apps as they are cutting into their text messaging revenues. And they want to charge people for WhatsApp access (its already happening). With Facebook's help they get to create a tiered internet under the guise of "helping the poor".

It seems kind of unlikely that facebook would cooperate on an intentional goal to reduce access to WhatsApp, when Facebook owns WhatsApp. But maybe. Or maybe that was the telecom's motivation, if not facebook's.

Re: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India

#97

Post by thieving_magpie »

tptacek wrote: post #75
thieving_magpie wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One quoted source that they turned into the subheading, in larger dark grey print. Seems fair game to me.

It's not fair game. The site guidelines specifically demand that submitters not do this exact thing ; instead, you're to use the article's original headline, unless it's misleading or linkbait. People who submit stories don't own the stories on HN; stories are community property. Being the first to submit a URL does not give someone special privileges to reframe the story for everyone else. In this case, the reframin…

I see what you're saying, I was wrong about using the subheading for the title instead of the title.

Your statement that the OP was "overtly dishonest" is ridiculous, come on.

Re: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India

#98

Post by vaishaksuresh »

asift wrote: post #74
zanny wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is a poor Indian citizen supposed to make a judgment on if having a locked down Internet where they can only use Facebook is better than this Internet they might not have even heard of with millions of websites? They only see one side of this argument if any at all. From their perspective they do not know alternatives even exist .

It's not that they don't see other alternatives. This is true, but the reality is that other realistic alternatives don't even exist. Their realistic option set is: (a) free access to an incredibly valuable set of resources, or (b) nothing. I would take (a) over (b) any day. I would hope that broader alternatives would eventually come along (and history tells us it will), but the crowd that wants the Indian poor to h…

>Heck, I might not even mind some gated internet in the US if I was free to opt-in/out of it and it reduced my internet costs.

The key difference is you would still have choice in the US and people in India would not.

Re: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India

#99

Post by vaishaksuresh »

polyomino wrote: post #62
ecobiker wrote: post #47

I'm personally disappointed by the comments in this article and others, specifically from people here in the Western world, that portray the fight by the internet activists as a fight against internet access to the poor. No one would make arguments like that here. Almost everyone rallied behind Net-Neutrality. Why is that it's ok for the poor to give up their liberty because they can get something of value in return?…

what exactly are the poor giving up?

>>Why is that it's ok for the poor to give up their liberty because they can get something of value in return?

In this case, choosing how to access the Internet.

Re: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India

#100

Post by beccasanchez »

tokai wrote: post #32
beccasanchez wrote: post #4

Even though it's obviously a land grab... no one other than massive corporations is capable or willing to provide this. I don't like it either, but that's how corporatocracy works. Might as well fight against gravity.

Humanity have a long and distinct history of fighting against gravity.

And yet gravity is still going strong...

Make an ally out of gravity and you can use its strength for something half-decent instead of all-bad.

I think this land grab by Facebook is half-decent instead of all-bad. Facebook is treating the poor better than the Indian government has, at least. Neither institution really gives a fuck about them.

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