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SF Yellow Cab to file for bankruptcy

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Re: SF Yellow Cab to file for bankruptcy

#51
post #7

This was bound to happen, just a matter of time. Uber and Lyft are able to operate at much lower costs, and additionally have basically an unlimited supply of capital (VC investment). Traditional businesses have no chance of being competitive in this market.

What makes U&L lower cost? Just the lack of driver health insurance and benefits?

I'm not up to date with the state of SF transportation rules and U&L. Are U&L still ignoring rules designed to provide access to those with disabilities?

This article is pretty old at this point (2014) and I don't know if the situation has changed for the better. http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/As-Uber-Lyft-Sidecar-grow...

Ignoring the people with disabilities, as they are more expensive to service is one (problematic) way to lower costs.

Re: SF Yellow Cab to file for bankruptcy

#52
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Ars Technica readership seem to loathe Uber.

To be fair, there are plenty of legitimate reasons to hate Uber: they are cheaters with no ethics [1], the executives are blatantly misogynistic [2], they consider rape a cost of doing business, as they consider that rapid expansion to India was more important than doing background checks on drivers [3], and of course I could go on, but I'll leave it there. [1] http://money.cnn.com/2014/08/11/technology/uber-fake-rid…

> they consider rape a cost of doing business, as they consider that rapid expansion to India was more important than doing background checks on drivers[3]

I didn't follow that case closely, but according to that article that's a pretty gross mischaracterization of what happened, since the driver had "evaded Uber’s earlier security checks by providing a fake police reference letter."

You also imply a pretty explicit calculus ("well, some rapes will happen, but it's worth it") that I doubt occurred except in the sense that any taxi company would have to consider.

But maybe there's a better source?

edit: not to take away from your other points. I've had extremely mixed feelings about uber due to those incidents and others, balanced by how completely awful cab companies tend to be and uber's genuine good points.

Re: SF Yellow Cab to file for bankruptcy

#53
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who cares about knowledge of city streets? Funny story: for a while in SF, the taxi union (?) was running ads that were thinly veiled attacks on Uber/Lyft. One of them showed a smiling taxi driver with the caption "would you rather have a driver who knows the city by heart or by GPS?" I found it particularly hilarious because the answer, for me at least, is GPS with live traffic information. Just another example of…

I have had a SF cab driver input the wrong address in GPS and start driving the entirely wrong direction, so it is pretty good to have a driver that knows the city. Hilariously though, this clueless driver wasn't a Uber/Lyft driver, but a traditional taxi cab driver!

The problem there is that the driver had to manually input the address. With Uber/Lyft, that problem doesn't exist, because you input the address into your phone's app, and that's relayed to the driver's phone and automatically used to route them. Any time you have humans entering data, you're bound to have problems like this.

Re: SF Yellow Cab to file for bankruptcy

#54
post #5

What's it like to ride in a SF taxi? I'm not a frequent taxi user, but last time I rode in an NYC cab, the partition made me feel like I was going to jail and the advertising screen made me feel like I was riding public transportation. No doubt the normal private cars are more comfortable.

Harrowing. They drive like maniacs.

65mph through the streets of downtown San Francisco was pretty interesting, but on the other hand we did get back to our hotel in about 3 minutes.

Re: SF Yellow Cab to file for bankruptcy

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um, I thought the reason cabs are so terrible is not because of unionization, but because it's a cartel , and it's given that power by the government because of the issuance of licenses (called "medallions") which ensure a limited supply of cabs, artificially restricting competition.

"but because it's a cartel, and it's given that power by the government because of the issuance of licenses (called "medallions") which ensure a limited supply of cabs, artificially restricting competition." Right, the unions. It's not a corporation that is artificially restriction competition, it's the unions. These unions have deals with the government. The same thing happens in the auto industry.

Your use of "unions" causes the reader to assume you mean "labor unions", which is why your original comment is gray.

Re: SF Yellow Cab to file for bankruptcy

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"but because it's a cartel, and it's given that power by the government because of the issuance of licenses (called "medallions") which ensure a limited supply of cabs, artificially restricting competition." Right, the unions. It's not a corporation that is artificially restriction competition, it's the unions. These unions have deals with the government. The same thing happens in the auto industry.

No, that's not a union, that's a cartel. A union is an organization of labor , not company owners. And it's the cab owners who have the deal with the government.

You are just mincing words to make it seem like unions aren't the bad guy here.

The auto unions, for instance, are larger than most big corporations and many of the leaders get paid out millions of dollars in bonuses every year.

Read the first line of this article:

https://news.vice.com/article/taxi-drivers-are-trying-to-tak...

"Taxi unions in cities such as Boston, Denver, New York, and San Francisco are not pleased...."

Sorry, but they are unionized and like every other industry where unions have control, you get inflated wages and higher prices. It nearly put the big 3 out of business during the downturn of 2008.

Companies like Toyota didn't even bat an eye during that time because they could make changes with ease.

Re: SF Yellow Cab to file for bankruptcy

#57

Too bad, so sad... If they hadn't allowed their service to get so horrible, with nasty old cars, drivers that don't speak English and drive around in circles to increase fares, drivers claiming their card readers are "broken" so you have to pay cash, taking an hour to show up when called, passing by black people, etc., then this wouldn't be happening. From the article: "Cab drivers, on the other hand, maintain that t…

Sadly, a lot of terrible cab drivers are moving over to Uber and Lyft now, and they're bringing with them the bad attitudes that drove people away from cabs.

I'm a frequent Lyft rider. One of my worst experiences recently was with a guy who spoke extremely broken English and who could barely understand English either. This wouldn't be so bad, but Apple Maps told him my house was someplace it wasn't (I didn't realize this was Apple Maps fucking up at the time; I've since begun texting drivers coming to my house telling them to not use Apple Maps), so I had to call him on the phone. It took a solid five minutes for him to understand that he's in the wrong location and needs to drive a few more blocks to find me, and he refused to exit his nav and look where I dropped the pin (I always take extra care to put the pin in the right spot). It took so long because his English was word salad, and he didn't understand basic words like "keep driving forward". Then, when he got to my place, I went to sit in the front (which I always do, and Lyft encourages), and as soon as I opened the door, he shouted at me "HEY, I'M UP HERE! GET IN BACK!" (the most coherent thing he said to me the whole time). Fortunately, the ride wasn't too far, so I just endured it and one-starred him when I got to my destination.

His rating was already at 4.5, which is below Lyft's termination threshold; I probably should've cancelled as soon as I saw it. Hopefully the one star I gave him was enough to get him kicked off the platform.

I've also had other bad experiences from drivers who act like their job is to milk their passengers:

- One guy also demanded I ride in the back. When I got in, I saw why: the inside door panels and the backs of the front seats were covered in advertising for his private driver service. If I knew then that was against the TOS, I would've had a nice chat with Trust & Safety.

- A driver took the wrong turn and got into an express toll lane on the freeway. Because of that, he missed the exit and we had to go on a long detour. He started ranting, saying "I'm trying trying to run a business here but people keep hitting me with all these tolls!". Also, this was another guy who made me ride in the back. Yeah, there's a pattern with these people. Because of that, making me ride in the back is now a guarantee you'll never get more than three stars from me (3-star or less means you're never matched with me again).

- A superstitious guy who refused to trust the voice nav... so to verify that the directions will indeed get us there, he started thumbing through the turn-by-turn directions with his face buried in the phone so he can't see the road, driving 20mph on the service road of a freeway. After the third time I told him to trust the nav and that I've taken Lyft from this place to that place dozens of times before, and he refused, I had him cancel the ride and let me out. I complained to Lyft and got my money back (because he charged me for the ride).

- Drivers, plural, who report that they've arrived before they actually get here. Dude, I can see your car coming down the street in the distance. You're not here yet.

- Driver who, on the way, pulled over at a gas station and texted me demanding I send him my destination address. When I told him I already entered it into the system, he cancelled the ride. My guess is he was going to cancel if the destination wasn't far enough away or maybe he was trying to redline me (the system only shows destination addresses once the driver reports they've arrived). Nothing of value was lost.

- Drivers who insist on parking a couple of blocks from my office building and then demanding I walk to their car instead of them driving up to my building. I'm not even on a busy city street... I work in the burbs! Also, the path from my office building to their car is always unlit, and it mostly happens when it's dark out. Sorry, but I'm a woman... I'm not walking through an unlit area at night to meet a driver who's exhibiting sketchy behavior. I'll just cancel and eat the fee. Bonus points to the guy who told me that I need to look at the Lyft map and walk to where his car is. He was laughing when he said it, too. Not my first bad experience with him: I cancelled on him once before after he was rude to me on the phone (and he has a very unique name I remembered). Since then, if I see his name come up, I immediately cancel. Guy is seriously creepy. He's not the only one who does this: maybe 5% of drivers who pick me up from work pull this, and they're all creepy guys who you can tell used to be cab drivers.

- One time I did walk the block or two over to the guy in a scenario like the above (one of the few times a driver pulled this when it was light out), he started ranting at me about how I kept him waiting for three minutes. When I said "I was expecting you to arrive where I actually was", he told me to get out of his car. As I was getting out, I told him I was complaining about him to Lyft, he said "I don't care, I work for myself", and then I walked back to my office building. As I was about to request a new ride, he drives over to me and physically chases me into the building. Luckily, I got in the elevator before he could. My boss called the police, they made sure he left (according to the police, he wanted to make sure I wouldn't do anything to hurt his reputation), and I then had a nice long chat with Trust & Safety.

There's a common thread here: people who think that they run private driver businesses and claim to just use Lyft as a tool are always the worst drivers.

Actually, 90% of drivers I deal with are perfectly pleasant. I just ride Lyft a lot, so I meet more drivers than the average person, and these experiences stick out in my mind.

Re: SF Yellow Cab to file for bankruptcy

#58

Too bad, so sad... If they hadn't allowed their service to get so horrible, with nasty old cars, drivers that don't speak English and drive around in circles to increase fares, drivers claiming their card readers are "broken" so you have to pay cash, taking an hour to show up when called, passing by black people, etc., then this wouldn't be happening. From the article: "Cab drivers, on the other hand, maintain that t…

Wow, this is weird, I'm being modded way up. I was expecting the reverse: on another, much older "tech news" site, any time the Uber/Lyft vs. cabs debate comes up, there's a very strong contingent of people there who absolutely hate Uber/Lyft and go on and on about how wonderful cabs are.

HN is not just a tech news site, it's the Silicon Valley startup community's tech news site. There's a large selection effect at play.

Re: SF Yellow Cab to file for bankruptcy

#59
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, there are plenty of legitimate reasons to hate Uber: they are cheaters with no ethics [1], the executives are blatantly misogynistic [2], they consider rape a cost of doing business, as they consider that rapid expansion to India was more important than doing background checks on drivers [3], and of course I could go on, but I'll leave it there. [1] http://money.cnn.com/2014/08/11/technology/uber-fake-rid…

> they consider rape a cost of doing business, as they consider that rapid expansion to India was more important than doing background checks on drivers[3] I didn't follow that case closely, but according to that article that's a pretty gross mischaracterization of what happened, since the driver had "evaded Uber’s earlier security checks by providing a fake police reference letter." You also imply a pretty explicit…

Perhaps this one: http://time.com/3693737/uber-new-delhi-india-rape-case/

> The new screening process will include requiring address verification, a local criminal court search and a national criminal database search

makes it sound like their previous background check did not include, "has this driver been convicted of sexual assault before?" This particular driver had indeed been previously found guilty of sexual assault, and Uber hired him without caring about that.

Re: SF Yellow Cab to file for bankruptcy

#60
post #27

Too bad, so sad... If they hadn't allowed their service to get so horrible, with nasty old cars, drivers that don't speak English and drive around in circles to increase fares, drivers claiming their card readers are "broken" so you have to pay cash, taking an hour to show up when called, passing by black people, etc., then this wouldn't be happening. From the article: "Cab drivers, on the other hand, maintain that t…

> Who cares about knowledge of city streets? Funny story: for a while in SF, the taxi union (?) was running ads that were thinly veiled attacks on Uber/Lyft. One of them showed a smiling taxi driver with the caption "would you rather have a driver who knows the city by heart or by GPS?" I found it particularly hilarious because the answer, for me at least, is GPS with live traffic information. Just another example of…

GPS still doesn't beat a good driver 9 out of 10 times for city driving. Uber drives consistently miss exits, head down clearly mistaken paths created by GPS errors, sit there staring at the GPS rather than the road

I uber to work everyday and 90% of the time the uber driver blindly follows GPS through an alley that isn't really meant for traffic, ignoring the much simpler and faster route that whatever GPS uber uses can't figure out.

But it's cheaper, cleaner, and will show up on demand. But the navigation of the driver is the big positive for cabs.

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