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SF Yellow Cab to file for bankruptcy

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Re: SF Yellow Cab to file for bankruptcy

#31

Post by dnautics »

x0x0 wrote: post #16
kw71 wrote: post #5

What's it like to ride in a SF taxi? I'm not a frequent taxi user, but last time I rode in an NYC cab, the partition made me feel like I was going to jail and the advertising screen made me feel like I was riding public transportation. No doubt the normal private cars are more comfortable.

The taxis themselves are basically fine. Probably (potentially?) cleaner than uber imo: leather seats are way easier to clean than cloth, and most ubers I've ridden in have cloth seats. Taxis tend to be unhappy if you pay with a card, but telling them they'll accept a card or nothing generally works. The problem is taxis just don't come. There are relatively few areas of sf and times where you can reasonably street h…

> Uber pays their drivers too little and is exploitative

Taxis are even worse until you own your own medallion and car. If you are on the low end of the totem pole in the taxi system, then taxis are way more exploitative than uber.

Re: SF Yellow Cab to file for bankruptcy

#32

Post by artursapek »

gergles wrote: post #28
artursapek wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ad screen almost feels inhumane. There's no way to turn it off or even dim it. After a long flight, having that thing in your face can be really unpleasant. It's my biggest gripe with NYC cabs. It's just too 1984 for my taste.

What, of course there is. There's a red button in the lower-right hand corner you can hit to turn it off in most cabs; granted, there are some where you cannot turn the screen 'off' but you can turn off the display of advertising on it (and it just then says "Touch here to resume").

That "off button" doesn't turn it off, it makes it goes into a silent slideshow mode showing you more ads with an equally bright screen. Point is you can't win against the ad machine.

Re: SF Yellow Cab to file for bankruptcy

#33

Post by gamblor956 »

bobby_9x wrote: post #17

Uber/Lyft are very interesting. The main reason cabs are so terrible is because the unions have a complete stranglehold on the industry, which means pretty much no advancement in technology and monopolistic pricing. They both are basically going against everything the unions stand for by not having regular wages or benefits. Edit: Admitting you're wrong is not something most people here on HN can do. Instead, they do…

Cabbies are not unionized. They rent their medallions from the taxi company and are treated as independent contractors.

Re: SF Yellow Cab to file for bankruptcy

#34

Post by bobby_9x »

Grishnakh wrote: post #26
bobby_9x wrote: post #17

Uber/Lyft are very interesting. The main reason cabs are so terrible is because the unions have a complete stranglehold on the industry, which means pretty much no advancement in technology and monopolistic pricing. They both are basically going against everything the unions stand for by not having regular wages or benefits. Edit: Admitting you're wrong is not something most people here on HN can do. Instead, they do…

Um, I thought the reason cabs are so terrible is not because of unionization, but because it's a cartel , and it's given that power by the government because of the issuance of licenses (called "medallions") which ensure a limited supply of cabs, artificially restricting competition.

"but because it's a cartel, and it's given that power by the government because of the issuance of licenses (called "medallions") which ensure a limited supply of cabs, artificially restricting competition."

Right, the unions. It's not a corporation that is artificially restriction competition, it's the unions. These unions have deals with the government.

The same thing happens in the auto industry.

Re: SF Yellow Cab to file for bankruptcy

#35

Post by cryptoz »

santaclaus wrote: post #22
Grishnakh wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, this is weird, I'm being modded way up. I was expecting the reverse: on another, much older "tech news" site, any time the Uber/Lyft vs. cabs debate comes up, there's a very strong contingent of people there who absolutely hate Uber/Lyft and go on and on about how wonderful cabs are.

The Ars Technica readership seem to loathe Uber.

To be fair, there are plenty of legitimate reasons to hate Uber: they are cheaters with no ethics [1], the executives are blatantly misogynistic [2], they consider rape a cost of doing business, as they consider that rapid expansion to India was more important than doing background checks on drivers [3], and of course I could go on, but I'll leave it there.

[1] http://money.cnn.com/2014/08/11/technology/uber-fake-ride-re...

[2] http://mic.com/articles/104524/if-you-care-about-women-delet...

[3] http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d229801e-7707-11e5-933d-efcdc3c11c...

Re: SF Yellow Cab to file for bankruptcy

#36

Post by bobby_9x »

gamblor956 wrote: post #33
bobby_9x wrote: post #17

Uber/Lyft are very interesting. The main reason cabs are so terrible is because the unions have a complete stranglehold on the industry, which means pretty much no advancement in technology and monopolistic pricing. They both are basically going against everything the unions stand for by not having regular wages or benefits. Edit: Admitting you're wrong is not something most people here on HN can do. Instead, they do…

Cabbies are not unionized. They rent their medallions from the taxi company and are treated as independent contractors.

Here is just one example: http://www.nytwa.org/

If what you are saying is true, the cabbies wouldn't be getting so upset and would welcome Uber/Lyft with open arms.

Re: SF Yellow Cab to file for bankruptcy

#37

Post by RickS »

mayank wrote: post #27
Grishnakh wrote: post #4

Too bad, so sad... If they hadn't allowed their service to get so horrible, with nasty old cars, drivers that don't speak English and drive around in circles to increase fares, drivers claiming their card readers are "broken" so you have to pay cash, taking an hour to show up when called, passing by black people, etc., then this wouldn't be happening. From the article: "Cab drivers, on the other hand, maintain that t…

> Who cares about knowledge of city streets? Funny story: for a while in SF, the taxi union (?) was running ads that were thinly veiled attacks on Uber/Lyft. One of them showed a smiling taxi driver with the caption "would you rather have a driver who knows the city by heart or by GPS?" I found it particularly hilarious because the answer, for me at least, is GPS with live traffic information. Just another example of…

I can appreciate both sides of this. There are lots of times that uber's maps will ignore an alley that would prevent having to circle the block, or will try to send a driver on the highway for one exit when going between 4th and 9th, which is a horrible idea.

There's a particular brand of driving that feels like "Only barely keeping it together because of the GPS" that's a little uncomfortable.

A confident driver with some slick shortcuts can be a really fun experience.

Re: SF Yellow Cab to file for bankruptcy

#38

Post by toomanybeersies »

nodesocket wrote: post #3

This was bound to happen, just a matter of time. Uber and Lyft are able to operate at much lower costs, and additionally have basically an unlimited supply of capital (VC investment). Traditional businesses have no chance of being competitive in this market.

It is a bit concerning that Uber is hemorrhaging money right now, being able to cost themselves lower than conventional cabs because they have such a massive amount of capital.

Outpricing your competition by making a loss/no profit is a nasty tactic, especially when your competition can't compete at a loss (for whatever reasons) and then goes out of business, only for the surviving business to then rise their prices to whatever point they want, given that there is now no competition.

Re: SF Yellow Cab to file for bankruptcy

#39

Post by ChuckMcM »

Does anyone know how much of this has to do with the crashing value of Taxi Medallions ? One article on a company in the NYC area claimed they had loans where they used the Medallions as collateral and that the crashing value was putting the loan in danger of being called by the bank.

Re: SF Yellow Cab to file for bankruptcy

#40

Post by Grishnakh »

fweespeech wrote: post #20
kzhahou wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes U&L lower cost? Just the lack of driver health insurance and benefits?

Lack of driver health insurance, lack of benefits, lack of liability from crashes, reduced compliance costs via skirting local regulations [e.g. Background checks for Uber/Lyft are cheaper than the more thorough checks in some municipalities] http://www.texastribune.org/2015/10/07/background-checks-cen... http://www.cnet.com/news/ubers-background-checks-dont-catch-...

Background checks are a canard. How do the cab companies check the background of someone from Uzbekistan? They can't, they can only go back as far as that person has been in the country, which isn't very long judging by their mastery of English.

U/L do carry insurance for their drivers when they're driving a passenger, and it's probably more than the regular cab companies carry (which is why SF Yellow cab is going bankrupt: they weren't insured for enough for one of their incompetent drivers, according to the article). Also, U/L have deeper pockets than any local cab company/coop, so civil suits will net higher payouts too if it came to that.

As for health insurance, from what I've read a lot of cab drivers aren't full-time employees either, so they also don't get health insurance, or benefits.

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