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Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India

economist.com

41–50 of 243 posts

Re: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India

#41
post #3

I wonder it it would be feasible to tunnel the "real internet" through Facebook using (for example) their chat client (you'd need something on the other end to make the connection). Like tunneling a VPN over DNS queries. That would be a clever work-around.

I was considering doing something similar a while ago, since here in New Zealand, we get free facebook on mobile (0.facebook.com).

I'm fairly sure that FB has things in place to stop you from using bots to send messages though, in an attempt to stop spam.

Re: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India

#42
What humors me most is that no one is up in arms against Reliance. On top of it, no one is suggesting Reliance whose owner is a billionaire long before Zukerberg was, to give free interwebs to his fellow Indians.

India has 80% adults with no access to Interwebs, how are you going to solve this problem in next 5 years?

*Do not tell me INR 20 dataplan, I know its there and I would not wish it on my worst enemy.

Re: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India

#43
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't speak for op but I agree with them and can explain why I feel that way. I believe most humans are inherently not evil even if they don't agree with me. They want to make the world a better place, and they are simply pursuing an agenda that accomplishes that in their eyes. I don't have any evidence that most people aren't evil, but in my day to day interactions I have yet to meet someone who I believe is since…

How much does it really matter, though? I'm sure Kim Jong-Un thinks he's making his country a better place, as thought Hitler. Perhaps we should focus more on judging the outcomes of people's actions instead of their intent.

I completely agree, results matter. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, as the old saying goes.

Re: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India

#44

Personally, I believe Zuckerberg is sincere in wanting to connect everyone in the world with each other. However, I believe he is also sincere in thinking that Facebook is the best and perhaps only platform by which this is possible. In this he is sincerely mistaken. I feel sure he doesn't think of it as a land grab, even privately. But he is looking from the inside out. If he wants to be seen as the Great Connector,…

Zuckerberg is the new Bill Gates. In the 90s, Gates was notorious in his ruthlessness to define personal computing as a 100% Microsoft-only experience. Today, as you pointed out, Zuckerberg is pushing equally hard at defining the internet and Facebook to be one and the same. In both cases, it doesn't really matter whether or not the efforts are sincere. The outcome is just as undesirable for the general public either…

It almost paints a picture of the old AOL and MSN services where you entered some corporation's version of the internet.

Re: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India

#45
post #22

> Though the programme is promoted by Facebook, its costs are borne by the mobile-telecoms operators it works with. How does that even work? Why would the telecoms agree to pay the bill on behalf of Facebook? Surely there must be some money from Facebook back to the telecom, to make it worthwhile for them. Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook_Zero http://telecoms.com/opinion/0-facebook-com-means-zero-money-..…

I guess because it leads to "full" internet subscription which generates revenue (assumedly profits) for them.

This makes a big difference to me. I was actually for Facebook basics, when I thought Facebook picked up the bill so that poor people could access at least some internet. But if the operators are paying for this ... then what value is Facebook actually providing?

Re: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India

#46
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Personally, I believe Zuckerberg is sincere in wanting to connect everyone in the world with each other. >I feel sure he doesn't think of it as a land grab, even privately. why?

I can't speak for op but I agree with them and can explain why I feel that way. I believe most humans are inherently not evil even if they don't agree with me. They want to make the world a better place, and they are simply pursuing an agenda that accomplishes that in their eyes. I don't have any evidence that most people aren't evil, but in my day to day interactions I have yet to meet someone who I believe is since…

It is possible that he could see it as a land grab but not see a "land grab" as inherently evil.

Re: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India

#47
I'm personally disappointed by the comments in this article and others, specifically from people here in the Western world, that portray the fight by the internet activists as a fight against internet access to the poor. No one would make arguments like that here. Almost everyone rallied behind Net-Neutrality. Why is that it's ok for the poor to give up their liberty because they can get something of value in return? "beggars cannot be choosers"? Come on - no one is begging for internet.

Re: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India

#48

Personally, I believe Zuckerberg is sincere in wanting to connect everyone in the world with each other. However, I believe he is also sincere in thinking that Facebook is the best and perhaps only platform by which this is possible. In this he is sincerely mistaken. I feel sure he doesn't think of it as a land grab, even privately. But he is looking from the inside out. If he wants to be seen as the Great Connector,…

If you look at every individual decision one makes it's rarely ever malicious. The reason to limit government power isn't necessarily because the government currently is bad, but that over a long period it sets a bad trajectory.

Every decision must be evaluated based on its long term trajectory. For example, giving a benevolent government unchecked powers will actually produce short term efficiency gains. But given infinite time, and the fact that it only takes one Hitler to fuck things up completely, it reasons that giving a government unchecked powers will inevitably lead to that scenario.

In Zuckerberg's case, regardless of his motivations, his plan will most likely have short term benefits. It's unfortunate because that's a great selling point. Unfortunately the net neutrality precedent it sets for the long term is bad, and just like Nazi America with a government with unchecked powers, letting Facebook do this is equivalent to giving them a monopoly because such an action will inevitably converge in abuse at some point in the future by integrating over the individual benevolent actions over an infinite amount of time.

Re: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India

#49

There is a remarkable disconnect between the critics and the users here. Note that no users were cited in the article. I understand not liking Facebook’s motives, that’s fine. Perhaps we can defer to the preferences of users here, who can choose to accept those motives or not, and to decide if the trade-off is an acceptable one. If we believe that they are unqualified to make this choice, one should explain that posi…

It does seem that people in India are speaking up against this. Now you will quip that these activists must already have internet access, otherwise they would not even know to speak up. But the activists are at least from the same communities as the target market for this program. They are fighting for their families and friends. This seems very genuine and selfless in comparison to the motivations of the company and ego they are fighting against.

The alternative would be to ignore the activists and see if people like a free thing they have minimal understanding of. I think that they will, at least we both suspect they will. But I don't think this will make it right. That they will like the free thing does not make it good for the community. For instance, how many people would like free cigarettes or alcohol after their first few exposures? Many. Would their distribution be good for the community in the long run? No. But who would speak up? It won't be the uninitiated, and it won't be the company distributing the goods.

Re: Facebook's “free internet” programme hits a roadblock in India

#50
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google Fiber is real internet Minus the things their ToS forbids. Only recently they started allowing you to host game servers, for Minecraft, for example. Their Fiber team heavily opposes Net Neutrality, too. Sadly.

"Minus the things their ToS forbids. Only recently they started allowing you to host game servers, for Minecraft, for example. " Basically no residential ISP in the US i'm aware of allows server hosting. Certainly no major ones :)

If this is true then they must be doing a pretty good job of turning a blind eye.
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