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Are Flat-Earthers Being Serious?

livescience.com

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Re: Are Flat-Earthers Being Serious?

#41

Post by lordnacho »

FussyZeus wrote: post #17

The explanation is a lot more simple I think. Back in the old days, the way you showed you were better than everyone else was owning the nicest car, having air conditioning, or having a powered mower. Now that more or less everyone has more or less everything, the only ways we can fulfill the basic instinct to be better than our neighbors is engaging in these kind of "all the sheep think this happened, but really..."…

I think you're onto something. Most people I know who want to appear smart find it necessary to be contrarian. Most of what they say is can be rephrased as "ordinary people just believe everything they're taught, but I've learned how to think so (9/11, illuminati, global warming, anti-vaccine, and so on but only one madness)".

Re: Are Flat-Earthers Being Serious?

#42

Post by marcosdumay »

brianclements wrote: post #20
gliese1337 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just flat-Earthers. I suspect this is reflective of some broader psychological phenomenon- what the article calls "conspiracy-theory psychology", but I don't think that quite covers it. I recently came across someone who was just as religiously convinced that JavaScript was not Turing-complete. No amount of mathematical argument could convince him otherwise. He didn't claim any conspiracy, just had an utter…

This is an interesting topic on it's own. I think it has to do with the hyper-connectivity that our modern digital world provides that allows us to self-segregate and form self-supporting echo chambers for just about anything we want to believe. So while the psychological underpinnings for people preferring their beliefs over objective truth is just human nature, I think the potency of modern day conspiracy-theory th…

Well, the association on the article was founded at the XIX century.

I don't think it's our modern hyper-connected world.

Re: Are Flat-Earthers Being Serious?

#43

Post by winfred »

Grishnakh wrote: post #31
pklausler wrote: post #23

I love that there's a Flat Earth Society of Australia and I wonder whether they think they're on top or below the disk. In short, we have a crisis of epistemology in our culture, and facts (empirical, repeatable, independent measurements) don't win arguments any more.

Yes, and that's why western (or at least American) civilization is likely doomed to being eclipsed by the Chinese before too long. Irrationality like that just isn't compatible with being a leading, technological society.

What makes you think the Chinese aren't equally irrational?

Re: Are Flat-Earthers Being Serious?

#44

Post by Isamu »

titzer wrote: post #4

I've been perversely interested in this Flat Earth movement for a few months. There are a lot of long, stunningly stupid, vehemently argued YouTube videos out there from flat earthers. There are a couple of basic science-minded people who take them on, often with some pretty entertaining results. But one thing is clear is that the flat earthers simply aren't listening. It goes a lot deeper than misunderstandings of f…

>It's psychological and goes much deeper than beliefs.

Oh yes! And you can get into trouble trying to engage with logic, because that is not the name of the game.

>I've been perversely interested in this

Me too, and with other crankery. I recommend the book Mathematical Cranks for similar entertainment.

https://books.google.com/books/about/Mathematical_Cranks.htm...

Maybe I am interested in it because you begin to see small reflections of similar behavior everywhere once you start looking for it.

It seems rare at first, but now I think similar thinking is to be found everywhere, on lots of topics. It is really mostly a strident, emotional attachment to a point of view that is not founded on a desire to find the truth.

It is founded on a deep personal association. To deny your personal "truth" would be like tearing down your view of yourself. So instead it must be defended at all costs, which is fine because you already are certain it is "true".

Re: Are Flat-Earthers Being Serious?

#45

Post by seanieb »

iLoch wrote: post #40
seanieb wrote: post #25

I find Flat-Earthers belief as surprising as an educated person believing in God.

-1 for steering this towards a religious debate. I'm not religious and don't believe in a god, but who's to say there isn't a god? We still don't have an explanation for how we're here. Until then, I'd say it's as fair a theory as any. Folks who believe in a god simply have a reason to believe, and that works for them.

I'm not making any judgements either way. I simply stated and the other commenter agreed that there are similarities.

Re: Are Flat-Earthers Being Serious?

#46

Post by brianclements »

marcosdumay wrote: post #42
brianclements wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an interesting topic on it's own. I think it has to do with the hyper-connectivity that our modern digital world provides that allows us to self-segregate and form self-supporting echo chambers for just about anything we want to believe. So while the psychological underpinnings for people preferring their beliefs over objective truth is just human nature, I think the potency of modern day conspiracy-theory th…

Well, the association on the article was founded at the XIX century. I don't think it's our modern hyper-connected world.

I wasn't focusing on the genesis of these ideas, which frankly have always been around in every technological era, I was talking about how such ideas can persist in the age of limitless information, education, and technology. And my answer was as stated above. The curious thing is that as information and access to information has increased, the "intrenchedness" of some of these fringe ideas has increased as well; like an opposite and equal effect. I would have expected the opposite. So I'd say that hyper-connectivity has made community ties stronger for believers in order to survive the information onslaught. Nothing binds a small community more then direct opposition from, well, everyone.

Re: Are Flat-Earthers Being Serious?

#47

Post by marcosdumay »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #3

Their model is surprisingly waterproof for tinfoil hatters. Genuinely elegant.

I just loved how, instead of simply rejecting gravitation (why would they need it?) they rationalized an incredibly more contrived explanation out of General Relativity.

I'm still not convinced they are serious.

Re: Are Flat-Earthers Being Serious?

#48

Post by DanBlake »

shmageggy wrote: post #39
DanBlake wrote: post #28

Is this not easy to prove its false? Just take a flight from the southern tip of Chile to South Australia. If the earth is indeed flat, the flight would take 24+ hours. But since they would fly over Antarctica, it only takes ~10. I suppose one explanation could be that the 747 flight they are in somehow gained the ability to go faster than a F16 at maximum thrust.

FTA: > [The theory is that] "GPS devices are rigged to make airplane pilots think they are flying in straight lines around a sphere when they are actually flying in circles above a disc."

my reply has to do with the unexpected time difference, not the GPS. When a flight (according to the flat earth) should take 24 hours and only takes 12.

Re: Are Flat-Earthers Being Serious?

#50

Post by Grishnakh »

winfred wrote: post #43
Grishnakh wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and that's why western (or at least American) civilization is likely doomed to being eclipsed by the Chinese before too long. Irrationality like that just isn't compatible with being a leading, technological society.

What makes you think the Chinese aren't equally irrational?

Because I don't see a Creationism Museum or a bunch of megachurches over there, or a bunch of loony conspiracy theorists, flat-earthers, moon-landing-deniers, etc.
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