Lumosity fined $2M for deceptive ads of “Brain Training” app • Hacker News Board

Re: Lumosity fined $2M for deceptive ads of “Brain Training” app

#241

Post by fluxquanta » Wed, Jan 06, 2016, 2:34 PM UTC

coffeevradar wrote: post #101

I have less faith in public radio because my local station is always playing Lumosity adverts. I'm old enough to remember when the whole "sponsored by" thing being extended to full ads was a controversial development on US public radio. Now they're shilling outright scams and doing so with specific promises that are completely specious.

I think if you should have less faith in anything it's the increasing attitude (at least from what I see) that public media is not worth funding with tax dollars or personal donations because it becomes a mouthpiece for a political agenda you may not agree with, so they have to rely on advertising stay on the air.

That said, there does appear to be some political leaning to NPR, but it's not nearly as bad as the cable news outlets.

Re: Lumosity fined $2M for deceptive ads of “Brain Training” app

#242

Post by cowsandmilk » Wed, Jan 06, 2016, 2:52 PM UTC

corndoge wrote: post #198

cant_kant wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Considering the standard deviation for IQ is 15 points" The standard deviation for the distribution of IQ is 15 points. The standard deviation of the errors of measurement associated with measuring IQ is 3 points.( ie: the standard error of measurement aka SEM) I would be willing to have 3 fingers of my left hand ( not including my thumb ) amputated to improve my IQ by 1 standard deviation. For more on Standard Erro…

What is your point? The parent made no error in his language. The inferred meaning of 'standard deviation' in this context is 'standard deviation for distribution'. The parent referred to an improvement of 3-4 IQ points, not standard deviations.

> The parent made no error in his language.

The parent claimed a 3-4 point in an individual's IQ is statistically meaningless by point to the standard deviation of IQs for an entire population. That is either (a) misguided or (b) intentionally misleading.

The standard deviation of a non-identical population has no relation to the statistical significance of a change for an individual.

Let's say the standard deviation of heights for males is 2.8 inches; that is what some of the internet claims. Let's use two standard deviations as statistically significant. That means, if someone woke up one day and was 6'3" instead of 5'10", that was not a "significant change" because they only changed in height by 5 inches.

Standard deviation for a non-identical population is completely unrelated to the significance of changes for an individual.

Re: Lumosity fined $2M for deceptive ads of “Brain Training” app

#243

Post by sanoli » Wed, Jan 06, 2016, 3:17 PM UTC

nemothekid wrote: post #138

frik wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The worst that can happen to a good small company is that some overhyped and overfunded 'start-up' enters the field and spoils the trust Like FB destroyed the trust of social networks, and ruined it for themself and their competitors? The same with chat with WhatsApp and other pseudo secure chat apps.

This implies that the general public ever really cared about the fact that their messaging is secure.

Spot on. None, and I mean NONE of my non-tech friends give a damn about their email/messaging not being really private.

Re: Lumosity fined $2M for deceptive ads of “Brain Training” app

#244

Post by notahacker » Wed, Jan 06, 2016, 4:54 PM UTC

lmm wrote: post #215

freehunter wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering the standard deviation for IQ is 15 points, I wouldn't drink an extra glass of water per day for another 3-4 IQ points, let alone play a training game for any extended amount of time. 3-4 points is statistically meaningless.

If you're of average IQ, an improvement of 0.2 standard deviations is about 8 percentiles of the population - the difference between being 15th in the class and being 12th or 13th. May not sound like much, but if we assume that translates directly into income (i.e. people of 10th percentile intelligence earn 10th percentile salaries) then that's the difference between a salary of $52k and $63k. At the high end it's e…

Bearing in mind how loosely IQ and income are correlated IRL, and the opportunity cost of brain training vs devoting the equivalent time to job-specific learning, I'd say it's far from clear a 0.2 SD boost in adult IQ should lead to any change in income at all.

If it was 1 SD, the difference in ability would be rather more difficult not to notice.

Re: Lumosity fined $2M for deceptive ads of “Brain Training” app

#245

Post by Chris2048 » Wed, Jan 06, 2016, 6:03 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #220

netheril96 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am under the impression that almost all customer testimonials are fake. They are just too easy to fake one, and hard to catch one, so I assume that they are all lies.

That's my default assumption too. I don't trust them at all, though I still give the company the benefit of doubt. Innocent until proven guilty, etc. And hell, even if they're not lies, they're usually so vague as to be meaningless anyway.

It's also worth noting they don't have to be faked, just mis-represented.

You can cherry pick sections of long testimonials.

You can cherry-pick testimonials themselves.

:-/

Re: Lumosity fined $2M for deceptive ads of “Brain Training” app

#246

Post by metamet » Wed, Jan 06, 2016, 6:08 PM UTC

Snowdax wrote: post #75

lettergram wrote: post #10

I just wanted to share my thoughts, which are simply: "Thank God!" I've been working on a startup: http://synaptitude.me/ (demo is old) Essentially, we can do some of what Luminosity claims (and have independent studies to prove it). Every time someone goes: "Oh it's just like Lumosity" I have to go through and explain the difference. My wife has a degree in neuroscience and I minored in BioE, and we both just HATE L…

I wouldn't quite be going "Thank God!" if I was you on this news. It could end up that now when people go "Oh it's just like Lumosity" it could potentially be with the added tinge now of "Are you trying to mislead me too?"

Yup. This is bad news for public perception. Now you have to fight against the new negativity plus being a competitor.

Even if you're more effective, you not have to prove you're not a fraud.

Re: Lumosity fined $2M for deceptive ads of “Brain Training” app

#247

Post by sevensor » Wed, Jan 06, 2016, 6:14 PM UTC

Nutmog wrote: post #236

sevensor wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They play those ads on NPR here too. They always make me think about what my dad (a psychologist) told me about IQ tests: all IQ actually measures is how well you do on IQ tests. It's entirely possible to study for the test and improve your IQ. Of course, doing this doesn't make you any better at anything useful, but it might make you eligible for Mensa. (My dad is very skeptical when it comes to psychometrics.)

That's a valid criticism if the test taker is trying to cheat, but if its yourself trying to find out your own IQ and you didn't train for it, it's still a useful predictor of academic success.

Absolutely, there's some correlation if the test-taker isn't tainted. But I bring it up here because Lumosity basically tells its customers they're getting smarter because they're getting better at its "brain-training" games, when it's pretty clear that the only thing they're likely to get better at is the games.

Re: Lumosity fined $2M for deceptive ads of “Brain Training” app

#248

Post by geoelectric » Wed, Jan 06, 2016, 6:27 PM UTC

basseq wrote: post #238

geoelectric wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, aside from the normal advice re: sleep, diet, exercise, etc., is there an everyday/attainable activity she doesn't hate for working memory and attention?

It comes down to five things (in general; not specific to WM & attention, but inclusive of): 1. Diet - Eat reasonably well. 2. Physical Exercise - Can be as simple as walking around the neighborhood; just stay active. 3. Stress Relief - Stress wears you down; get zen when you can. 4. Socialization - Just being around other people helps you stay sharp. 5. Brain Exercise - Different and varied challenges. Crosswords, p…

That's great feedback, thanks. You articulate my concern well in the last sentence. I actually do a ton of word puzzles, board games, and video games, but sometimes I wonder if I'm doing much more than building vocabulary and a little hand/eye, along with whatever specifics apply to that puzzle/game. I should probably try to develop more patience with strategy games, since the "planning" part is probably key there.

Thanks again!

Re: Lumosity fined $2M for deceptive ads of “Brain Training” app

#249

Post by kragen » Wed, Jan 06, 2016, 8:26 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #37

lettergram wrote: post #10

I just wanted to share my thoughts, which are simply: "Thank God!" I've been working on a startup: http://synaptitude.me/ (demo is old) Essentially, we can do some of what Luminosity claims (and have independent studies to prove it). Every time someone goes: "Oh it's just like Lumosity" I have to go through and explain the difference. My wife has a degree in neuroscience and I minored in BioE, and we both just HATE L…

The worst that can happen to a good small company is that some overhyped and overfunded 'start-up' enters the field and spoils the trust built slowly and over a long time between the consumers and the suppliers of goods and services. This is unfortunately not rare at all and the 'hotter' a market seems the more of these BS artists will enter. In the end you have the same product and the same relationship with your cu…

I feel that I am in this position right now vis-a-vis internet startups in general: lots of overhyped and overfunded "start-ups" promising security, privacy, and freedom and delivering pervasive surveillance, imitation security, and extortion.

Re: Lumosity fined $2M for deceptive ads of “Brain Training” app

#250

Post by freehunter » Wed, Jan 06, 2016, 9:31 PM UTC

estefan wrote: post #232

freehunter wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My grandmother has a "star named after her". She knows it's fake but she says she appreciates the thought behind it. Like wearing costume jewelry, you know that green hunk of plastic the size of a walnut isn't a real emerald but that doesn't stop people from wearing them.

I'll name a grain of sand after her too if you ping me a $100... :-D

See, you gotta do it right. Make it romantic. Stars are romantic. It has to be on a huge scale, too, so it sounds impressive. And then you need something tangible, so there has to be a piece of paper, preferably showing how they could see the thing named after them. Stars are easiest, but you could do custom constellations named after them. Shouldn't be too hard to hack up a python script that draws pictures over a star map and prints out certificates of the brand new constellation.

I'd buy that for my grandma. She'd like that.