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This is party time; Internet Explorer 8, 9 and 10 die on Tuesday

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Re: This is party time; Internet Explorer 8, 9 and 10 die on Tuesday

#101

Post by bosdev »

chris_wot wrote: post #41
oliwarner wrote: post #28

Oh poor, deluded TNW. Software only dies in the way developers care about when users stop using it. Well beside its actual expiry (which seems to be 2020), people STILL use XP with an ancient versions of IE6 and IE7. Many Vista users stick on IE7. So calm yourself and put flexbox back down. You've got a few years before that's supported enough.

If I was a developer, I'd carefully look at my referer logs and if only 15% of my user community was using IE 8-10, I'd just develop for IE 10. I would NOT warn the end users about needing to upgrade, I'd just let script errors occur and not release any compatibility fixes. I'd respond to support tickets explaining that there are bugs in their old version of IE and suggest they upgrade, or install Chrome or Firefox.…

Not showing a message to your users is very user hostile. It's one thing to not offer a service, it's another to frustrate your potential users.

Re: This is party time; Internet Explorer 8, 9 and 10 die on Tuesday

#102

Post by bosdev »

J_Darnley wrote: post #61

If you were writing HTML documents would it really matter which browsers people were using?

You mean without JavaScript and CSS? The reason browser versions matter is because there has been a massive amount of innovation in JS and CSS in the last decade. That innovation has allowed websites to move closer and closer to the capabilities of desktop applications, which is a win for ease-of-installation, security and for the web as a platform.

Re: This is party time; Internet Explorer 8, 9 and 10 die on Tuesday

#103

Post by serge2k »

jacquesm wrote: post #83
vdaniuk wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It is extremely rare that the cost to support a browser outweighs the economic importance of those using those browsers. Citation please. Are you really sure this applies to modern front-end web app with reasonable complexity?

I don't need to 'cite' what I can see with my own eyes from the stats of my payment services provider. Browsers are very easily released, they take a very long time to die. This is one reason why I tend to keep things simple, this vastly reduces the amount of resources required to make something work on a lot of different platforms and browser combinations. Of course if your web app relies on all kinds of sexy stuff…

> I don't need to 'cite' what I can see with my own eyes from the stats of my payment services provider

You could be a liar, idiot, troll, or just really love IE. Why would anyone take your word for it.

Re: This is party time; Internet Explorer 8, 9 and 10 die on Tuesday

#104

Post by jacquesm »

serge2k wrote: post #103
jacquesm wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't need to 'cite' what I can see with my own eyes from the stats of my payment services provider. Browsers are very easily released, they take a very long time to die. This is one reason why I tend to keep things simple, this vastly reduces the amount of resources required to make something work on a lot of different platforms and browser combinations. Of course if your web app relies on all kinds of sexy stuff…

> I don't need to 'cite' what I can see with my own eyes from the stats of my payment services provider You could be a liar, idiot, troll, or just really love IE. Why would anyone take your word for it.

> You could be a liar, idiot, troll, or just really love IE.

You omitted the possibility that I might be right, am not an idiot, am not prone to either lying or trolling and absolutely detest IE (and have not used windows for a really very long time).

> Why would anyone take your word for it.

Please don't. Ignore me and whatever I write here on the off chance that there is a grain of truth in it and that it will make you money.

Forgive me if I did not anticipate the Spanish inquisition demanding proof for something that to me simply makes good sense. Feel free to offend your users, to limit your products to function only with the latest browsers and to spend your marketing money to attract people that can then not use your product.

Re: This is party time; Internet Explorer 8, 9 and 10 die on Tuesday

#105

Post by johnnydoebk »

chris_wot wrote: post #42
danieltillett wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am in this situation. A good chunk of my users are stuck on xp so I am stuck on supporting xp too. There is no way around this for me as the reason my users are stuck on xp is because of hardware. Arg!

They can still install Firefox.

> They can still install Firefox.

Latest versions of Firefox cannot be installed on XP. Though, Chrome still works.

Re: This is party time; Internet Explorer 8, 9 and 10 die on Tuesday

#106

Post by madaxe_again »

oliwarner wrote: post #87
al2o3cr wrote: post #81

I really don't get the concept of people being "stuck on XP": Vista shipped in 2007, so if your company wrote software after that that was locked to XP they made a mistake - one they've had EIGHT YEARS to fix. Everything except the most expensive, vertical-market hardware (that might require XP for driver support) has nigh-certainly already been depreciated to zero on the books.

When you've got a system that is, for example, underpinning your whole business operation (eg billing, machine controls, whatever) and that cost thousands (often tens or hundreds of thousands) to implement and it only works on a legacy version of an operating system (be that Win 3.11, Linux 2.4, or even just XP) you WILL move heaven and earth to avoid disrupting that system. Even if it's a smooth migration to a curre…

What's wrong with continuous improvement?

Our entire ethos is that software is never finished.

Re: This is party time; Internet Explorer 8, 9 and 10 die on Tuesday

#107

Post by zanny »

flohofwoe wrote: post #84
al2o3cr wrote: post #81

I really don't get the concept of people being "stuck on XP": Vista shipped in 2007, so if your company wrote software after that that was locked to XP they made a mistake - one they've had EIGHT YEARS to fix. Everything except the most expensive, vertical-market hardware (that might require XP for driver support) has nigh-certainly already been depreciated to zero on the books.

Let me play the devil's advocate: Why should I as a user be forced to upgrade from a system which does it's job just fine only because the system's manufacturer decides that they don't want to spend any more resources on patching up errors in this system? Having bought the system, shouldn't I have gotten a product that is reasonably secure in the first place? How do I know that the new shiny replacement system doesn'…

> Why should I as a user be forced to upgrade from a system

You aren't forced. But you will be exploited for it, any security vulnerability will destroy your entire operation, and your customers should distrust you for being so stupid.

Its not that you made a mistake trying to keep the system running. Your mistake was using a proprietary foundation with no commitment from the provider it will be supported forever. So of course you have no option when the rug is pulled out from under you - but that was your mistake. If you were built on top of Linux 2.4 like the superposter said, you could just pay the developer costs to maintain it yourself.

Re: This is party time; Internet Explorer 8, 9 and 10 die on Tuesday

#108

Post by zanny »

theandrewbailey wrote: post #89
al2o3cr wrote: post #81

I really don't get the concept of people being "stuck on XP": Vista shipped in 2007, so if your company wrote software after that that was locked to XP they made a mistake - one they've had EIGHT YEARS to fix. Everything except the most expensive, vertical-market hardware (that might require XP for driver support) has nigh-certainly already been depreciated to zero on the books.

> I really don't get the concept of people being "stuck on XP" Can you understand the concept of people being too poor to ever upgrade? Can you understand the concept of people who live in places where up-to-date technology is hard to get? (see Cloudflare's recent SHA1 deprecation post: https://blog.cloudflare.com/sha-1-deprecation-no-browser-lef... ) And before you say "there's Linux that's free", the idea of Linux…

The mistake is not what they are using, the mistake is every person today falling into that trap. We know it exists, yet everyone is still buying Windows computers running versions of a proprietary operating system we know Microsoft will stop supporting within 8 years (at least for Vista through 8, we still have no idea what Microsoft is doing with 10 going forward, and they honestly can do whatever they want - they control the software).

I mourn those stuck on XP, destined to be exploited for eternity by the thousands of malware payloads targeting them now, but you are right in nothing can be done about them really. But the real injustice is every person without the time to learn new systems (and that is a barrier on Windows and Linux - try switching someone from XP to 10 and it as massive a leap, or even more massive, than going from XP to Lubuntu).

Re: This is party time; Internet Explorer 8, 9 and 10 die on Tuesday

#109

Post by manigandham »

flohofwoe wrote: post #84
al2o3cr wrote: post #81

I really don't get the concept of people being "stuck on XP": Vista shipped in 2007, so if your company wrote software after that that was locked to XP they made a mistake - one they've had EIGHT YEARS to fix. Everything except the most expensive, vertical-market hardware (that might require XP for driver support) has nigh-certainly already been depreciated to zero on the books.

Let me play the devil's advocate: Why should I as a user be forced to upgrade from a system which does it's job just fine only because the system's manufacturer decides that they don't want to spend any more resources on patching up errors in this system? Having bought the system, shouldn't I have gotten a product that is reasonably secure in the first place? How do I know that the new shiny replacement system doesn'…

This is just maintenance, pure and simple. Applies to any other piece of equipment, software or otherwise.

Plenty of hardware components that can probably keep running for a long time without maintenance, but you wouldn't do that would you?

Re: This is party time; Internet Explorer 8, 9 and 10 die on Tuesday

#110

Post by manigandham »

al2o3cr wrote: post #81

I really don't get the concept of people being "stuck on XP": Vista shipped in 2007, so if your company wrote software after that that was locked to XP they made a mistake - one they've had EIGHT YEARS to fix. Everything except the most expensive, vertical-market hardware (that might require XP for driver support) has nigh-certainly already been depreciated to zero on the books.

I'm always amazed by what kind of software is so tied down to an operating system like that. Windows has incredible backwards compatibility so I struggle to see what exactly is so hard to move.

This strikes me more as management and economic policy issues within the organization of why waste money for something they might not appreciate or see the necessity of.

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