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This is party time; Internet Explorer 8, 9 and 10 die on Tuesday

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Re: This is party time; Internet Explorer 8, 9 and 10 die on Tuesday

#51

Post by robgibbons »

frik wrote: post #16

IE9 support is already in a sad state. Many new websites already look in IE9 as bad as in IE6. Chrome should spawns less processes (hold some more tabs in one process). IE spawns less processes than Chrome and therefor is less of a memory hog. Firefox finally needs a proper multi-process implementation. Even the latest Developer edition just uses two processes (firefox.exe and plugin-container.exe) - I just tried it…

I'm kind of sick of hearing complaints about Chrome's multiple processes being somehow a bad thing. You want fewer processes in Chrome, then you go on to complain about Firefox's crashed tabs. Do you understand that's one of the benefits of having multiple processes? If one process crashes, it very rarely effects the performance of any other processes. It's not keeping all of your eggs in one basket. It provides better security as well. So I'm at a loss as to why so few people can appreciate it. Considering these benefits, memory usage is totally reasonable.

Re: This is party time; Internet Explorer 8, 9 and 10 die on Tuesday

#52

Post by hs86 »

drdaeman wrote: post #25
ars wrote: post #20

I don't understand why Microsoft divides its browsers this way. They seem to be the only one that actually has versions, and [security] updates within a version. Instead just have a single browser (instead of 5 or more counting from IE6) and any update increments the version. Both Firefox and Chrome work this way. They would have to allow installing the latest version of IE on any machine all the way back to XP, but…

I don't think they can. IE's (since IE5) is not your usual standalone browser application - it's an operating system component, that's used in a lot of places, starting right from the desktop. Tighter integration and mutual OS-browser dependence means it's not as easy as saying "ok, let's allow IE10 to run on Vista".

I remember that installing an older version of IE on Windows 95 enabled some features like the Quick Launch bar in the task bar. Previously, I believed that this was a feature exclusive to the newer Windows 98 but that IE installation backported a lot of the visible Windows 98 changes into the Windows 95 Explorer.

Re: This is party time; Internet Explorer 8, 9 and 10 die on Tuesday

#53

Post by tombrossman »

rrss1122 wrote: post #3

It will be a while still before you can actually party. As long as a measurable percentage of your users are still on these browsers, you're missing out on money of you don't support them.

Businesses might be missing out on customer money if they don't support obsolete browsers, but the people developing the webapp/website/whatever are definitely missing out if they don't start with 'we support all modern mainstream browsers' and then supply a separate bid for old IE support. Let the business decide whether the significant extra cost is offset by the extra income from these users.

Re: This is party time; Internet Explorer 8, 9 and 10 die on Tuesday

#54

Post by lmm »

chris_wot wrote: post #43
lmm wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it does. They could ship a statically-linked copy of Edge to Windows Vista (and even XP) users via Windows Update. The old IE DLLs would have to stay there to be used by the system, but the actual web browser could be a newer one.

That's a terrible idea from a security standpoint.

If they're stopping delivering security updates for those versions of IE then it's better than nothing. Actually assuming they keep the statically linked Edge updated via windows update then I don't see any issues (as annoying as a large update to a statically linked program will be).

Re: This is party time; Internet Explorer 8, 9 and 10 die on Tuesday

#55

Post by nitrogen »

danieltillett wrote: post #50
nitrogen wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firefox probably won't help with non-browser software, if that's what the parent comment was referring to. I also have to develop an app for a client for XP because of some proprietary hardware that still doesn't have a Windows 7/8/10 driver.

Yes this is my problem. The hardware manufacturer does not want to support upgrades (they want to sell new hardware) and so I am stuck supporting XP. In my situation there is not even hardware the customer can upgrade to as the original hardware supplier has left the market. We are all stuck with XP until something catastrophic happens.

Is the hardware expensive enough that reverse engineering the driver would be economical?

Re: This is party time; Internet Explorer 8, 9 and 10 die on Tuesday

#56

Post by 72deluxe »

jlgaddis wrote: post #32
ars wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? I know that would be easier for developers, but think about it from a "it's my computer" point of view - do you really want people doing that to you? It's your computer, you should be able to to run whatever software you like. A reminder to upgrade, OK, that's fine. But actually disabling? You go too far.

I laughed a little bit imagining a user yelling out "it's my computer!" and actually believing they should have full, absolute control over anything it does... while running a Microsoft operating system.

My Windows 3.11 VM works fine though thanks!

Re: This is party time; Internet Explorer 8, 9 and 10 die on Tuesday

#57

Post by jtheory »

chris_wot wrote: post #41
oliwarner wrote: post #28

Oh poor, deluded TNW. Software only dies in the way developers care about when users stop using it. Well beside its actual expiry (which seems to be 2020), people STILL use XP with an ancient versions of IE6 and IE7. Many Vista users stick on IE7. So calm yourself and put flexbox back down. You've got a few years before that's supported enough.

If I was a developer, I'd carefully look at my referer logs and if only 15% of my user community was using IE 8-10, I'd just develop for IE 10. I would NOT warn the end users about needing to upgrade, I'd just let script errors occur and not release any compatibility fixes. I'd respond to support tickets explaining that there are bugs in their old version of IE and suggest they upgrade, or install Chrome or Firefox.…

Why this, specifically?

> I would NOT warn the end users about needing to upgrade

People using your product are discussing it on review sites, on social media, with friends/family, etc.. If you silently give some of them a broken product, a few will contact support; but I imagine most will assume your product is just low quality. So that's the word they'll spread.

For corporate users: well, you'd need to talk with your customers. They might be facing a seriously expensive upgrade process, and could be extremely unhappy to hear you're setting an arbitrary deadline for them.

Re: This is party time; Internet Explorer 8, 9 and 10 die on Tuesday

#58

Post by oliwarner »

chris_wot wrote: post #41
oliwarner wrote: post #28

Oh poor, deluded TNW. Software only dies in the way developers care about when users stop using it. Well beside its actual expiry (which seems to be 2020), people STILL use XP with an ancient versions of IE6 and IE7. Many Vista users stick on IE7. So calm yourself and put flexbox back down. You've got a few years before that's supported enough.

If I was a developer, I'd carefully look at my referer logs and if only 15% of my user community was using IE 8-10, I'd just develop for IE 10. I would NOT warn the end users about needing to upgrade, I'd just let script errors occur and not release any compatibility fixes. I'd respond to support tickets explaining that there are bugs in their old version of IE and suggest they upgrade, or install Chrome or Firefox.…

It's easy to say this stuff, less easy to implement in a business. It depends on your demographic and your content. Take B2B sales or B2B SaaS. Enterprise users are THE main reason for crappy old browsers in my experience, so the real question becomes...

Are you really willing to take a 10% hit on sales?

You can announce EOLs until the cows come home (Microsoft has and look how well it has done them). If your product stops working, they'll complain at you and then cancel their contract and find another provider who will support them.

I'm speaking from a gruelling 15 years experience developing enterprise SaaS. We've only just dropped IE6. It'll be years before IE8 goes away.

Re: This is party time; Internet Explorer 8, 9 and 10 die on Tuesday

#59

Post by will_pseudonym »

oliwarner wrote: post #58
chris_wot wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I was a developer, I'd carefully look at my referer logs and if only 15% of my user community was using IE 8-10, I'd just develop for IE 10. I would NOT warn the end users about needing to upgrade, I'd just let script errors occur and not release any compatibility fixes. I'd respond to support tickets explaining that there are bugs in their old version of IE and suggest they upgrade, or install Chrome or Firefox.…

It's easy to say this stuff, less easy to implement in a business. It depends on your demographic and your content. Take B2B sales or B2B SaaS. Enterprise users are THE main reason for crappy old browsers in my experience, so the real question becomes... Are you really willing to take a 10% hit on sales? You can announce EOLs until the cows come home (Microsoft has and look how well it has done them). If your product…

It's the 80/20 rule for me. Think about the type of client (individual user/corporation) that is still using Entities who use legacy software have more problems than their browser. It's symptomatic of a much larger issue, and I love being able to filter them out!

Re: This is party time; Internet Explorer 8, 9 and 10 die on Tuesday

#60

Post by [deleted] »

chris_wot wrote: post #41
oliwarner wrote: post #28

Oh poor, deluded TNW. Software only dies in the way developers care about when users stop using it. Well beside its actual expiry (which seems to be 2020), people STILL use XP with an ancient versions of IE6 and IE7. Many Vista users stick on IE7. So calm yourself and put flexbox back down. You've got a few years before that's supported enough.

If I was a developer, I'd carefully look at my referer logs and if only 15% of my user community was using IE 8-10, I'd just develop for IE 10. I would NOT warn the end users about needing to upgrade, I'd just let script errors occur and not release any compatibility fixes. I'd respond to support tickets explaining that there are bugs in their old version of IE and suggest they upgrade, or install Chrome or Firefox.…

[deleted]
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