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This is party time; Internet Explorer 8, 9 and 10 die on Tuesday

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Re: This is party time; Internet Explorer 8, 9 and 10 die on Tuesday

#21

Post by ars »

cm2187 wrote: post #7
saurik wrote: post #2

I feel like users in China will be more likely to install a "don't nag me about upgrading" counter-patch than actually upgrade to a newer version of Internet Explorer.

If they are stuck on XP it's not really a choice. I work for a major European corporation and I am also stuck on XP. We don't exactly have the best in class IT dept (despite claims by a senior IT guy that we have more developpers than google and facebook together... we don't really have much to show for it).

> If they are stuck on XP it's not really a choice.

I never understood why users stuck on XP don't just install a different browser (Chrome or Firefox). You don't have to use IE, especially not in the version is so old it barely works with modern sites.

Re: This is party time; Internet Explorer 8, 9 and 10 die on Tuesday

#22

Post by davidjgraph »

starquake wrote: post #8

Unfortunately this is not true: "Beginning January 12, 2016, only the most current version of Internet Explorer available for a supported operating system will receive technical supports and security updates." The latest Internet Explorer version that runs on Windows Vista is Internet Explorer 9. So there will still be users using that... Windows Vista will have security updates till 2020.

Indeed, Vista being EOL 11 April 2017. It does mean that IE 10 is EOL, but not 9 for another 15 months.

Re: This is party time; Internet Explorer 8, 9 and 10 die on Tuesday

#23

Post by jmspring »

cm2187 wrote: post #7
saurik wrote: post #2

I feel like users in China will be more likely to install a "don't nag me about upgrading" counter-patch than actually upgrade to a newer version of Internet Explorer.

If they are stuck on XP it's not really a choice. I work for a major European corporation and I am also stuck on XP. We don't exactly have the best in class IT dept (despite claims by a senior IT guy that we have more developpers than google and facebook together... we don't really have much to show for it).

More than one entity is paying for continual patches for XP -- http://money.cnn.com/2015/06/26/technology/microsoft-windows...

Re: This is party time; Internet Explorer 8, 9 and 10 die on Tuesday

#24

Post by userbinator »

Given that IE may be the only widely-used browser that restrains web developers from going completely gung-ho with the fancy new stuff and creating even more sites that are just plain user-hostile and annoying (e.g. see the rise of superfluous SPAs and/or massive amounts of JS required to load simple static content, replacing sites that worked fine without), I fear that this will make casual browsing a worse experience even for those not using IE...

It's not the new sites which are already fancy webapps, the ones doing new things that would be nearly impossible in older browsers and require the very latest browser versions that I'm concerned about; it's the sites that cater to a mass audience like news, webmail, search engines ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8254743 ), and other valuable repositories of information which are most at risk of being "appified" and making the Internet less accessible overall.

Related article: http://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2015/07/stop_pushing...

...and discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9961613

Re: This is party time; Internet Explorer 8, 9 and 10 die on Tuesday

#25

Post by drdaeman »

ars wrote: post #20

I don't understand why Microsoft divides its browsers this way. They seem to be the only one that actually has versions, and [security] updates within a version. Instead just have a single browser (instead of 5 or more counting from IE6) and any update increments the version. Both Firefox and Chrome work this way. They would have to allow installing the latest version of IE on any machine all the way back to XP, but…

I don't think they can. IE's (since IE5) is not your usual standalone browser application - it's an operating system component, that's used in a lot of places, starting right from the desktop. Tighter integration and mutual OS-browser dependence means it's not as easy as saying "ok, let's allow IE10 to run on Vista".

Re: This is party time; Internet Explorer 8, 9 and 10 die on Tuesday

#26

Post by ars »

drdaeman wrote: post #25
ars wrote: post #20

I don't understand why Microsoft divides its browsers this way. They seem to be the only one that actually has versions, and [security] updates within a version. Instead just have a single browser (instead of 5 or more counting from IE6) and any update increments the version. Both Firefox and Chrome work this way. They would have to allow installing the latest version of IE on any machine all the way back to XP, but…

I don't think they can. IE's (since IE5) is not your usual standalone browser application - it's an operating system component, that's used in a lot of places, starting right from the desktop. Tighter integration and mutual OS-browser dependence means it's not as easy as saying "ok, let's allow IE10 to run on Vista".

I've heard that, but no one is forcing them to program it that way.

They could do the equivalent of static linking and include the necessary components in the browser instead of the OS.

That's more or less what the Utilu IE Collection does I think.

Re: This is party time; Internet Explorer 8, 9 and 10 die on Tuesday

#27

Post by yazaddaruvala »

noobermin wrote: post #9

Does this mean jquery will lose a significant part of its utility?

Unlikely..

- 1% of traffic is still significant for most businesses.

- Consistency/Training/Hiring. Everyone that has ever written JavaScript has learnt jQuery. Some people don't even "know" JavaScript, they "know" jQuery (I say this as a testament to jQuery, not as a detriment to these developers. jQuery is all they have needed, why know anything else?)

- jQuery has so many plugins/frameworks that depend on it. Bootstrap alone gives it a ton of utility. Backbone/Ember are extremely tied to jQuery (or "clones").

- While ofcourse plugins/frameworks can be rewritten to exclude the jQuery dependency. jQuery is provenly stable. You would need significant counter inertia to rock the boat. At that point, why rock the boat? No one ever got fired for using jQuery: huge utility.

- Ergonomics. AJAX, Animations, Custom Events would all need custom wrappers / util libraries

- Forward compatibility. If you use jQuery today, all you'll have to do is upgrade the version of jQuery and you're using the latest and greatest browser internals (when appropriate) but no change to your API (mostly)

And I'm sure I'm missing a couple.

P.S. Before anyone starts, there are tons of good reasons to not use jQuery. Are the reasons to drop jQuery greater than the reasons to keep it? I don't really care. That is for individuals/teams to decide. I am just answering the parent's implicit question: "Is there utility to jQuery beyond legacy browser support?"

Re: This is party time; Internet Explorer 8, 9 and 10 die on Tuesday

#28

Post by oliwarner »

Oh poor, deluded TNW. Software only dies in the way developers care about when users stop using it.

Well beside its actual expiry (which seems to be 2020), people STILL use XP with an ancient versions of IE6 and IE7. Many Vista users stick on IE7.

So calm yourself and put flexbox back down. You've got a few years before that's supported enough.

Re: This is party time; Internet Explorer 8, 9 and 10 die on Tuesday

#29

Post by netheril96 »

ars wrote: post #26
drdaeman wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think they can. IE's (since IE5) is not your usual standalone browser application - it's an operating system component, that's used in a lot of places, starting right from the desktop. Tighter integration and mutual OS-browser dependence means it's not as easy as saying "ok, let's allow IE10 to run on Vista".

I've heard that, but no one is forcing them to program it that way. They could do the equivalent of static linking and include the necessary components in the browser instead of the OS. That's more or less what the Utilu IE Collection does I think.

Yeah, they could do that now, but that doesn't help the IE 6, 7, 8 problems, does that?

Re: This is party time; Internet Explorer 8, 9 and 10 die on Tuesday

#30

Post by lmm »

netheril96 wrote: post #29
ars wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard that, but no one is forcing them to program it that way. They could do the equivalent of static linking and include the necessary components in the browser instead of the OS. That's more or less what the Utilu IE Collection does I think.

Yeah, they could do that now, but that doesn't help the IE 6, 7, 8 problems, does that?

Yes it does. They could ship a statically-linked copy of Edge to Windows Vista (and even XP) users via Windows Update. The old IE DLLs would have to stay there to be used by the system, but the actual web browser could be a newer one.
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