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Android++, native development and debugging for Visual Studio, now open-source

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Re: Android++, native development and debugging for Visual Studio, now open-source

#31
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The term open source means you have to, at least, have the right to use, modify, and redistribute modifications. It's more than just being able to see the source.

I believe you're confusing Open Source with Free Software. Open Source literally means the source is openly accessible.

No, it doesn't. No matter what certain closed-source companies might want you to believe.

There is a difference between Open Source and Free Software, but it's ideological, not technical (as pertaining to the rights granted to the users of the software).

Re: Android++, native development and debugging for Visual Studio, now open-source

#32
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like, it is open source, but it's not free open source?

The term open source means you have to, at least, have the right to use, modify, and redistribute modifications. It's more than just being able to see the source.

Unfortunately the term "open source" as used by many people is not necessarily synonymous with the official OSI definition available here. The OSI definition is for most intents and purposes equivalent/compatible/similar to the FSF definition of "free (as in freedom) software" available here https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html

For an official example of the use of the term "open source" to mean "you can read the source but are not allowed to do anything else with it" see the 2007 announcements about QNX. OSI explicitly declared there is no (OSI) open sourcing in what QNX did at the time. https://opensource.org/node/195

For an example of people using the term to mean only "you can read the source" look no further than the discussions related to the recent leaking of Amiga 3.1 source code where people were debating if an effort can be made to convince the copyright owners to "open source" the code: "Correct me if i'm wrong, but open source doesn't have to equal FOSS. I'd be inclined to agree with you if it were FOSS, but just being open source could provide 'assistance' to Cloanto who can incorporate peoples ideas/fixes but still retain the right to sell it when others don't. Managed well, could it actually be beneficial to Cloanto and the broader Amiga community?" "You are correct. FOSS and Open Source are not the same. Permissive licensing doesn't have to be attached to the opened source." "This is true, but nobody suggested it should be FOSS, me included. Open sourcing of any kind just isn't going to happen without some sort of miracle."

Unfortunately the term "free software" is a terribly ambiguous one (and Richard Stallman and the FSF are to blame here since they knew about the homonimity of the word "free" beforehand) And even more unfortunately "open source" has for a long time become ambiguous. You can not rely on "open source" meaning "OSI open source" to everyone you talk to. And members of both organisations and their supporters spend a lot of time fighting about the meaning of each others terms. So we are stuck with the horrible term "FLOSS", an abbreviation of "Free & Libre & Open Source Software" to roughly define what we actually want to talk about: both copyleft ( https://www.gnu.org/copyleft/ ) and copyfree/permissive ( http://copyfree.org/standard ) licensed software (and in some cases also public domain).

Re: Android++, native development and debugging for Visual Studio, now open-source

#33
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe you're confusing Open Source with Free Software. Open Source literally means the source is openly accessible.

No, it doesn't. No matter what certain closed-source companies might want you to believe. There is a difference between Open Source and Free Software, but it's ideological, not technical (as pertaining to the rights granted to the users of the software).

Both of you are right and wrong at the same time. Fighting about this terminology is unproductive. See my comment above ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10848308 ).

Re: Android++, native development and debugging for Visual Studio, now open-source

#34
post #26
post #2

As a lawyer, this licensing is super worrying to me "Copyright (C) 2013-2015 NaturalMotion Limited. Used under licence. Code written by Justin Webb. Licence granted by Justin Webb with the permission of NaturalMotion Limited. No rights are granted by NaturalMotion Limited under this licence. " Uh, so Justin is using it under license from natural motion, and justin has been granted the right to license it, but natural…

By uploading their code to a public GitHub repository, they agree to GitHub's terms of service[1], which grants other users additional rights to this code. Although NaturalMotion Limited says they grant no rights under this license, you are allowed to fork this repository, as they have implicitly granted those rights to you by agreeing to the GitHub terms of service. [1] https://help.github.com/articles/github-terms-…

You're not actually so silly as to believe this is the case, are you?

Re: Android++, native development and debugging for Visual Studio, now open-source

#35
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By uploading their code to a public GitHub repository, they agree to GitHub's terms of service[1], which grants other users additional rights to this code. Although NaturalMotion Limited says they grant no rights under this license, you are allowed to fork this repository, as they have implicitly granted those rights to you by agreeing to the GitHub terms of service. [1] https://help.github.com/articles/github-terms-…

Let's assume for a second that viewing and forking are clear and obvious copyright rights (they aren't), and that they somehow cover downloading and using (they probably wouldnt). "By uploading their code to a public GitHub repository, they agree to GitHub's terms of service[1], which grants other users additional rights to this code. " This has literally never been upheld in court, nor is it likely to be upheld in a…

> You can't give away rights you don't have. Note that NaturalMotion didn't upload this, Justin did.

If Justin works for NaturalMotion, then we can argue that he has "apparent authority", even if he wouldn't otherwise have authority.

Re: Android++, native development and debugging for Visual Studio, now open-source

#37
post #3

I wish it was for C# instead of C++. I'd like to tinker around with some phone apps, but Monos prices are too high.

then maybe kotlin is what you want ? It shares some nice features with C# and is entirely inter op with java code. Also, it is free.

Re: Android++, native development and debugging for Visual Studio, now open-source

#38
post #3

I wish it was for C# instead of C++. I'd like to tinker around with some phone apps, but Monos prices are too high.

Xamarin Starter Edition is free. There are some tough app size restrictions but apparently they want developers to at least be able to kick the tires!

https://xamarin.com/starter

Re: Android++, native development and debugging for Visual Studio, now open-source

#39
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The term open source means you have to, at least, have the right to use, modify, and redistribute modifications. It's more than just being able to see the source.

I believe you're confusing Open Source with Free Software. Open Source literally means the source is openly accessible.

> I believe you're confusing Open Source with Free Software. Open Source literally means the source is openly accessible.

This is what shared source is about. Open source is nearly always used as defined by the OSI:

> https://opensource.org/osd

Re: Android++, native development and debugging for Visual Studio, now open-source

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's assume for a second that viewing and forking are clear and obvious copyright rights (they aren't), and that they somehow cover downloading and using (they probably wouldnt). "By uploading their code to a public GitHub repository, they agree to GitHub's terms of service[1], which grants other users additional rights to this code. " This has literally never been upheld in court, nor is it likely to be upheld in a…

> You can't give away rights you don't have. Note that NaturalMotion didn't upload this, Justin did. If Justin works for NaturalMotion, then we can argue that he has "apparent authority", even if he wouldn't otherwise have authority.

Good luck with that when naturalmotion has explicitly disclaimed granting rights :)
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