Working fewer hours would make us more productive • Hacker News Board

Re: Working fewer hours would make us more productive

#161

Post by Drdrdrq » Tue, Jan 05, 2016, 6:47 PM UTC

TranquilMarmot wrote: post #137

wslh wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think your plan is for everyone since if you need to be synced with a team not working on Wednesdays is negative in the long run.

This happens where I work- one of my coworkers is here Monday - Thursday (10 hour days) but takes Friday off. He's the only one with knowledge of a lot of our legacy systems, so a lot of potential work doesn't happen on Fridays. I'd argue that more of us should learn what he knows to avoid "hit by a bus syndrome" but we don't have enough spare man hours to devote to that.

You could also just follow his lead and take Fridays off... :)

Seriously though, no man should be irreplaceable because of his knowledge, this is some serious risk you are taking.

Re: Working fewer hours would make us more productive

#162

Post by justncase80 » Tue, Jan 05, 2016, 6:48 PM UTC

myth_buster wrote: post #147

justncase80 wrote: post #126

I recently read an interesting book called Looking Backward, by Edward Bellamy. It was written in 1887 but could have been written yesterday. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Looking_Backward It was basically about a guy who accidentally travels forward in time (sort of like idiocracy) except he finds himself in an American Socialist Utopia. It was a really good book in general but there was one idea in particular that…

Humans have incredible propensity to acclimatize to the environment. That's the only reasoning I could arrive at when I was poor and saw people around willing to do the most mundane back breaking work than to seek other forms of employment. The lever that is used in society today is desperation as opposed to higher pay per hr in the "Looking Backward" case. The sanitation worker doesn't enjoy their work and no amount…

Also, besides "getting used to it" or "working their way out of it" there are a few other quite grim possibilities that can happen in Wage Slavery.

Namely suffering and early death. Sometimes the workers band together (aka unionize) or straight up rebel causing civil war. These are all things that have happened in the past, could happen again in the future.

Re: Working fewer hours would make us more productive

#163

Post by justncase80 » Tue, Jan 05, 2016, 6:53 PM UTC

golergka wrote: post #7

I agree that shorter hours are likely to be beneficial, but why are people trying to achieve this by passing a law? I think that this can be achieved with a softer approach. Imagine that when you sign up for a job, you select how many days per week do you want to work, from 3 to 6, with proportionate wage scale. That you can select what hours do you want to work. That it's easy to change this arrangement while you're…

This can be effective in jobs where there is a labor shortage but not a labor surplus.

Meaning, if you are applying for a job that 100 other people are also applying for, you don't get to make these kinds of demands. Whoever is hiring you will simply pass you over.

However if you happen to be working a position requiring skill with a labor shortage (they are having a hard time finding someone qualified to fill the position) then you definitely could be in a position to negotiate for these things.

I think this is why people would be inclined to making it law, there are a lot of jobs where the workers wouldn't have the leverage to affect this kind of change.

Re: Working fewer hours would make us more productive

#164

Post by taurath » Tue, Jan 05, 2016, 7:03 PM UTC

yason wrote: post #101

I worked at 50% capacity for some years. It was just great until I chose to want more money for the time being and returned to 70% capacity. That was just great, too, until I realized that I was as productive as a full-time guy without the full-time pay so I eventually went back full-time but trying to keep my output roughly on the same level as I had been getting good reviews all the time. However, last year I got t…

That is exactly what I've always thought would be ideal for me - 3 month hyper productive periods and a good chunk of time off.

Re: Working fewer hours would make us more productive

#165

Post by Drdrdrq » Tue, Jan 05, 2016, 7:09 PM UTC

icebraining wrote: post #121

viewer5 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly why. Because minimum wage puts a floor on the 'bottom' that's being raced to. Otherwise, people would be earning considerably less than the current minimum wage, because the 'bottom' would be even lower.

The question was sarcastic (poor form, I know). More than 90% of workers earn above minimum wage, despite this supposedly inevitable race to the bottom.

Hmmm... I would say 100% of workers should earn above minimum wage, that's the whole point of the law. Right?

Re: Working fewer hours would make us more productive

#166

Post by zem » Tue, Jan 05, 2016, 7:21 PM UTC

justncase80 wrote: post #126

I recently read an interesting book called Looking Backward, by Edward Bellamy. It was written in 1887 but could have been written yesterday. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Looking_Backward It was basically about a guy who accidentally travels forward in time (sort of like idiocracy) except he finds himself in an American Socialist Utopia. It was a really good book in general but there was one idea in particular that…

Heinlein's "Beyond This Horizon" also had an interesting mix of ideas, including a scheme where jobs paid based on a three-factor formula (skill required, benefit to society, and unpleasantness of job). It has always struck me as one of the biggest injustices of the current setup that low-skilled but highly unpleasant/dangerous jobs are able to be so badly paid.

Re: Working fewer hours would make us more productive

#167

Post by icebraining » Tue, Jan 05, 2016, 7:44 PM UTC

Drdrdrq wrote: post #165

icebraining wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question was sarcastic (poor form, I know). More than 90% of workers earn above minimum wage, despite this supposedly inevitable race to the bottom.

Hmmm... I would say 100% of workers should earn above minimum wage, that's the whole point of the law. Right?

Well, the point of the law is to have all workers earning at least minimum wage, not necessarily above.

Re: Working fewer hours would make us more productive

#168

Post by anon4 » Tue, Jan 05, 2016, 7:48 PM UTC

justncase80 wrote: post #160

myth_buster wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans have incredible propensity to acclimatize to the environment. That's the only reasoning I could arrive at when I was poor and saw people around willing to do the most mundane back breaking work than to seek other forms of employment. The lever that is used in society today is desperation as opposed to higher pay per hr in the "Looking Backward" case. The sanitation worker doesn't enjoy their work and no amount…

I believe convincing people to do "bad jobs" by means of desperation is named Wage Slavery. Besides being immoral and degrading, its pretty inefficient. On the other hand, some jobs that need to be done plain out unpleasant. How do you convince someone to do it? In the Looking Backwards scenario the incentive to do one of the "bad jobs" isn't being paid more per hour, everyone is paid the same, its working less hours…

Less hours at the same pay is more money per hour. But there is a subtle difference - cleaning toilets for 2 hours is much different mentally than cleaning toilets for 8 hours. And you can then go look after dogs at the shelter for 4 more hours and get two paychecks.

Re: Working fewer hours would make us more productive

#169

Post by graeme » Tue, Jan 05, 2016, 8:05 PM UTC

yason wrote: post #101

I worked at 50% capacity for some years. It was just great until I chose to want more money for the time being and returned to 70% capacity. That was just great, too, until I realized that I was as productive as a full-time guy without the full-time pay so I eventually went back full-time but trying to keep my output roughly on the same level as I had been getting good reviews all the time. However, last year I got t…

How do you manage these? I'm most productive that way too. But the trouble is I'll keep going longer than I should, and then I just get tired and unproductive and not sensible enough to rest.

Are there signs you look for to leave it on a high note, or do you use hard time limits?

Re: Working fewer hours would make us more productive

#170

Post by hvfhhvv » Tue, Jan 05, 2016, 8:09 PM UTC

justncase80 wrote: post #162

myth_buster wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans have incredible propensity to acclimatize to the environment. That's the only reasoning I could arrive at when I was poor and saw people around willing to do the most mundane back breaking work than to seek other forms of employment. The lever that is used in society today is desperation as opposed to higher pay per hr in the "Looking Backward" case. The sanitation worker doesn't enjoy their work and no amount…

Also, besides "getting used to it" or "working their way out of it" there are a few other quite grim possibilities that can happen in Wage Slavery. Namely suffering and early death. Sometimes the workers band together (aka unionize) or straight up rebel causing civil war. These are all things that have happened in the past, could happen again in the future.

Early death is not just a possibility. Stress is associated with undesirable jobs. Stress causes early death. The poor have shorter less happy lives because they are stressed. We live in a disgusting, indeffensible world full of small minded little people.