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The Refragmentation

paulgraham.com

451–460 of 461 posts

Re: The Refragmentation

#451
post #152

PG you may want to rethink the idea of networks of cooperating companies work better than a single big company. Just finished reading Ashlee Vance's biography of Elon Musk. Real revelation for this Michigan boy was that at both Tesla and SpaceX Musk had failures trying to use existing supplier networks. By doing a lot of manufacturing in house Musk not only realized cost and time savings but gained an agility and nim…

I think big single companies work when you are creating a new market and innovating with new technology. As a market and technology matures, the network takes over.

Re: The Refragmentation

#452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, but got invaded because the cabal behind the U.S. President had declared they wanted to invade Iraq already during the Clinton administration. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_C...

There's a huge difference between maintaining public support to send a voluntarily conscripted army somewhere, and actually instituting a draft and wartime command economy. Do you think your early 2000's out-of-touch war cheerleader would have been so zealous if their family were forced into the army, or if fuel rationing meant they could only drive one of their SUVs? It is all too easy to be pro-war when its only ef…

I don't disagree. Which is why I am against professional armed forces and am a proponent of only conscript armies. Sadly enough most (all?) European countries abandoned conscription in the last decade (those that still had it).

Re: The Refragmentation

#453
post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But wait, some people start a pizza place or a grocery store or something similar. Those kinds of businesses are definitely new businesses, and people who start these kinds of businesses is what was traditionally meant by the word "entrepreneur". But startups are qualitatively different - they are usually started with the express (and usually only ) purpose of growing very large, very fast. Call them startups or not,…

Sure, but a start-up is more of a determination after the fact than something you decide to build. The only reason it works out for YC is because they start so many companies that a few of them due to the expected distribution end up being home runs. They still influence things as much as they can in that direction but there are absolutely no guarantees and quite a few of the go-big-or-go-home companies end up going…

I agree with a lot of what you wrote, but I do disagree quite strongly on your first (main?) point, as I understood it.

You wrote: "[...] a start-up is more of a determination after the fact than something you decide to build."

I totally agree with your point about companies normally not being able to "grow fast", and I agree with you that luck is a major factor. However, I think you're wrong in saying that people don't try to deliberately build "grow-big" companies.

Believe me, I'm a proponent of building small-growth "bootstrapped" companies, and I've had many conversations with founders about going that route. The vast majority, who had it in their heads that they wanted to be a startup, were deliberate in pursuing "grow-big" strategies. As one easy example, almost every company that raises VC money is either implicitly or, often, explicitly, chasing a grow-big strategy.

I completely agree that the vast majority of companies end up not being able to grow big, and have to decide between becoming a small company and "milking the cow" as you put it, or closing the company. This doesn't mean that they didn't set out, in the first place, to build a "grow big" company! In fact, you can see that this is true in the way that so many of these companies choose not to continue the small business, which could be profitable, but instead choose to fold the company instead.

In fact, reading the writings of YC, or talking with most honest VCs, will easily prove my point - they constantly tell you they are aiming to fund companies striving for $1b+ valuations, and they're fine with 99% of the startups they fund not getting there as long as 1% succeed. They are quite explicitly optimizing for "grow big" strategies.

Btw, I'd like to point out nl's comment below about Steve Blank's definition of a startup, which I always thought was the absolute best definition. A startup is an organization in search of a business model. When someone opens a pizzeria or a software consultancy, say, they're not searching for a business model - they're just executing one. But VC-backed "grow big" startups are very explicitly trying something new.

EDIT: Just to make sure we're not arguing over definitions - I'm claiming two things:

1. That what people, especially on HN, mean when they startup is a company pursuing a "grow big" strategy, and deliberately so vs. a non "grow big" strategy.

2. Regardless of 1, I also think that the majority of modern-day companies (let's say founded in the last 20 years?) that have grown big were deliberately started with the intention of growing big, ala Amazon, as opposed to say FB or Google, which wouldn't fall into this category. I'm less sure about this point, but it is a factual question that we should probably be able to answer.

Re: The Refragmentation

#454
From each according to his ability, to each according to his need

It is a communism motto, not socialism (from each according to his ability, to each according to his work).

And this shows how little PG knows about socialism.

Re: The Refragmentation

#455
Nice read, but completely oblivious to the central role of FIRE (finance/insurance/real estate) industries, plus industrial stagnation, that has obtained since the 70s in creating today's ridiculous wealth gap. I don't have the exact statistics on hand but finance represented something like 16% of GDP in the 70s compared to now around 40%.

PG's a techno-capitalist and he wants to say that somehow technology has created all this wealth, but it's simply false. Tech has only been able to "create wealth" because of the overheated financial forces behind ridiculous valuations, stock prices unhinged from any fiscal reality, etc. If we were to actually price tech on the money it makes it would pale in comparison to the giants of yesteryear.

There's an interesting, but now practically unknown, marxist economist named Paul Sweezy who correctly predicted in the early 70s that the monopoly capitalism of the time would fade into permanent stagnation -- closing factories etc -- with increasing financialization of the economy. Pretty much nailed it.

Re: The Refragmentation

#456
post #152

PG you may want to rethink the idea of networks of cooperating companies work better than a single big company. Just finished reading Ashlee Vance's biography of Elon Musk. Real revelation for this Michigan boy was that at both Tesla and SpaceX Musk had failures trying to use existing supplier networks. By doing a lot of manufacturing in house Musk not only realized cost and time savings but gained an agility and nim…

Actually, Tesla and SpaceX are outliers. They are not so much natural offspring of our time as are the outcome of an ambitious person with resources. They started in a desert. There weren't really neither a serious market for them¹ nor a sturdy supply structure that could have gained maturity with the market support. Besides the difficulty of getting into the high-barrier entry and heavy-regulated automotive industry, the existing electric cars related businesses were under constant attack by petroleum cartel. It was only natural to have difficulties in finding healthy suppliers for his Tesla. SpaceX? Well, the existing suppliers for space-ware were not the result of a free market, because there didn't really existed (or still exists) one (for that matter). What existed was either imported from overseas or come from only a narrow circle of small design labs that use to custom-build pieces required by someone for which the cost didn't seem to be an issue - NASA. This obviously doesn't count for something SpaceX could rather rely on.

¹ Here I expect at least some people to bring up something like Henry Ford and his horse & carriage replacement offering as a counter-example in favor to Elon Musk's enterprise. The car vs. existing livestock-based transport and the electric car vs. existing fossil fuel car are not really comparable.

Re: The Refragmentation

#457
post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So it seems that today there are greater opportunities to sell expensive hardware, particularly since even the lower classes are (in absolute terms) richer than the middle class of the Apple II era. What has happened is instead technology allowed some luxury products to be commodized and available to everyone. I doubt multi-billionairs build their own OS-es, cell phone towers, hardware, batteries, support from scra…

75% of poor Americans own at least 1 car, and 45% own their own home. Most poor people have copious amounts of free time; only a fraction work. http://www.census.gov/prod/2008pubs/h150-07.pdf Of course, this is tangential to curun1r's claim, which is that somehow an inability for consumers to purchase new technologies would hinder innovation.

What those numbers tell me is that most retirees are considered "poor" as we currently measure such things. Also that they tend to own homes and not work. None of that is surprising.

Citing any sort of statistics like that without at least breaking it down by age band is pretty pointless, in my experience.

Re: The Refragmentation

#458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> top 1% of the population, which owns more than the rest of the 99% combined http://www.levyinstitute.org/pubs/wp_589.pdf This study that I found (after just 3 minutes of googling, btw) says that top 1% own only 34.6%. Do you have a source for your figures?

http://policy-practice.oxfam.org.uk/publications/wealth-havi...

Note that this is global wealth, whereas golergka's link is about the US specifically.

Turns out, the world in general has a lot more poor people (both absolute, and as a fraction of the population) than the US does, so globally more wealth is concentrated in a smaller population fraction.

I agree that for the world at large the wealth distribution is clearly not good. The good news is that it's been getting a lot better in the last few decades, largely due to India and especially China moving people out of poverty by the hundreds of millions.

For the US specifically, things are less clear.

Re: The Refragmentation

#459

Graham leaves out one crucial thing: A more equal society is a better society. Always. This was borne out in the work of Wilkinson and Pickett for their book The Spirit Level . You may have less technology. You may have less innovation. Tough. Creating more of what Earl Dunovant called "cute and useful monkey tricks with energy and matter" at the expense of your fellow man and the planet does not put you ahead, and s…

> A more equal society is a better society. Always.

If you can read Russian and aren't familiar with the concept of уравниловка, I suggest looking it up. My search on the English transliteration (uravnilovka) doesn't turn up good descriptions offhand.

If you can't read Russian, I'll summarize. It's basically the argument you're making: that everyone should be equal, and that the most expedient way to accomplish this is to drag down the people who stick up. Which is true: that _is_ the most expedient way to accomplish equality. Historically it also leads to everyone living in communal apartments and a stagnating economy that eventually causes your country to have a revolution because people get so fed up with it. It just takes several decades for the pernicious effects of stifling economic growth and innovation to show up.

Now maybe you didn't really mean "always" when you said "always", of course. Maybe you meant "keeping all sorts of things equal, more equality is preferable". I may be able to buy that, but then you need to convincingly argue that those things can be kept equal.

(We could also have an argument about the data cherrypicking and other shenanigans in the book you mention, but I don't think it's really all that germane here, since you're making a blanket argument which has simple historical counterexamples.)

Re: The Refragmentation

#460
post #434
post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly what he was saying. I just put it this way to show how absurd his idea is if we follow through with it till the end.

Nonsense, please quit that strawmanning. Reducing the pace of consumer technological progress to the benefit of more equality would very likely beneficial for humanity; and it does not imply returning to underdeveloped times (assuming it would reduce it significantly in the first place).

> Reducing the pace of consumer technological progress to the benefit of more equality

Was tried, more or less successfully, in the Soviet Union. People were not happy with the results in terms of access to consumer goods and living conditions. Been there, done that, don't want to do it again.

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