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Working fewer hours would make us more productive

theguardian.com

111–120 of 253 posts

Re: Working fewer hours would make us more productive

#111

I changed my working arrangement to 80% recently, so now I work four 8-hour day weeks. I wholeheartedly recommend it if you can make it work. I have wednesday off, so the week is divided into two-day stretches. Not sure if I'm any more productive (maybe), but I'm a lot happier. I suspect some coworkers are going to follow my lead, now that the precedent has been set.

I did the same for several years at my last job (although with Friday off so I had long weekends). It was great and I'd encourage anyone to try it if they can.

I definitely felt like it made me more productive per hour worked. A shorter week added a little bit of time pressure that helped me stay focused, and I'd often finish something in four days that might otherwise have stretched to five.

Total output was probably a little lower, but I took an equivalent pay cut when I reduced my hours.

I was only able to make that arrangement after I'd been at the job for a while. When I changed jobs, I went back to five days a week, and I'm definitely missing the long weekends.

Re: Working fewer hours would make us more productive

#112
Most conversations about working fewer hours are really conversations about how much the personal resources of workers can be drawn upon without providing extra pay before there are negative productivity consequences. This article ties in directly with some ideas I've been exploring recently [0] involving personal resources of workers and time/productivity management of workers [1][2]. The concepts of worker personal resource management and worker time management are largely foreign to the places I've worked, much to their detriment. Instead, the strategy could be described as "colloquial management", a mishmash of half-remembered concepts from business school or worse, the playground.

If a worker can quantify roughly how much time and energy each task at work will take up, a clearer picture of how to be the most productive in the least amount of time will reveal itself. Employers perpetually hide in the ambiguity of the employees' time and effort, hoping to make a profit out of asking for too much and motivate their workforce by periodically throwing a tiny bone to the most masochistic over-achiever. A tabulated rubric describing to the employer exactly how much time is spent on each task and how much mental and physical energy the task takes relative to the worker's actual capacity for these energies would show exactly how wasteful it is to over-work people.

Longer hours deplete worker mental energy and physical energy resources whether or not there is more work being done. Once these resources are depleted, worker efficiency drops precipitously. Additionally, periodically depleting these resources leads to worker burnout. I also suspect that workers resent longer hours whether or not they are necessary, leading to weakened ability to refill their mental energy reservoir due to poorer mental health in general.

[0]:http://cryoshon.co/2016/01/04/how-to-survive-late-capitalism...

[1]:http://cryoshon.co/2015/12/23/time-management-tips-hot-from-...

[2]:http://cryoshon.co/2016/01/01/how-to-decide-what-to-prioriti...

Re: Working fewer hours would make us more productive

#113

Mythical man month actually says the opposite, because even if longer hours have diminishing returns, the organizational overhead from adding people to the team is worse. Maybe the descrepency here is short view (a couple years to build a startup) vs long view (mature organization over an entire business cycle) edit ----- Secondary source: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3547965 Quoting the secondary source: "Fr…

Not really. It's the unit size that matters. Mythical man month said the ideal basic organization for delivering work output is modeled after a surgical team. If you model after traditional military units, the infantry squad is the equivalent to that team. Under the mythical man month org structure, the atomic unit of work capacity is that surgical team. You can't do more surgery by putting two more surgeons in the O…

[deleted]

Re: Working fewer hours would make us more productive

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also laws are the way to prevent a race to the bottom. If it's legal to work longer hours people will, and everyone else will do so to compete with them. Oh, is that why almost everyone earns minimum wage?

Every full-time job is 40 hours, which is the maximum allowed without having to pay overtime. I think it's fair to assume companies will do anything for increased productivity. That has nothing to do with wages.

Full-time means nothing more than 40-hour week. Your logic is self-referential.

Re: Working fewer hours would make us more productive

#116
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only way to change culture is through law. Look at seatbelt use: decades of public awareness campaigns did nothing, but once it became a legal requirement people switched. Also laws are the way to prevent a race to the bottom. If it's legal to work longer hours people will, and everyone else will do so to compete with them. Compare OHSA, see http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/ .

Also laws are the way to prevent a race to the bottom. If it's legal to work longer hours people will, and everyone else will do so to compete with them. Oh, is that why almost everyone earns minimum wage?

No, but it's why people with H1-B visas aren't the highest earners in technology.

Re: Working fewer hours would make us more productive

#117
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And why should the employer get all the benefit from this? Thankfully, we don't analytically decide who takes the benefits — labor market is working pretty well at figuring this out.

How do you know it's working pretty well?

Because I know how it compares to planned economy, which was doing it completely awfully in comparison. And in general, by every measure labour markets which have enough volume to regulate themselves fair far better than labour markets that are small or subjected to monopoly from either side.

Re: Working fewer hours would make us more productive

#118
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only way to change culture is through law. Look at seatbelt use: decades of public awareness campaigns did nothing, but once it became a legal requirement people switched. Also laws are the way to prevent a race to the bottom. If it's legal to work longer hours people will, and everyone else will do so to compete with them. Compare OHSA, see http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/ .

Also laws are the way to prevent a race to the bottom. If it's legal to work longer hours people will, and everyone else will do so to compete with them. Oh, is that why almost everyone earns minimum wage?

That's exactly why. Because minimum wage puts a floor on the 'bottom' that's being raced to. Otherwise, people would be earning considerably less than the current minimum wage, because the 'bottom' would be even lower.

Re: Working fewer hours would make us more productive

#119
post #107
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does that say anything about the labor market market mechanism?

Whether it's working well overall is mostly a matter of opinion, but it seems to be working pretty well for sauronlord at least.

So sauronlord's reply contributes nothing as an answer to my question about golergka's statement which was: "Thankfully, we don't analytically decide who takes the benefits — labor market is working pretty well at figuring this out."

I'm genuinely curious to know how we would know whether the labor market is working well at figuring this out or not.

Re: Working fewer hours would make us more productive

#120
post #114

So, let's be honest - how many hours do you feel you are productive in a day ? https://guaana.com/quiz/how-many-hours-do-you-feel-you-are-p...

I'm annoyed that it said the "Most Voted" before I even had the chance to look at the options. That immediately tainted my ability for an unbiased response.
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