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Working fewer hours would make us more productive

theguardian.com

41–50 of 253 posts

Re: Working fewer hours would make us more productive

#41
The climate change argument is a terrible one. Lower consumption? In the same article it argues that the work would be spread over more people. So, using the article's logic, same amount of productivity, more people providing it. For 50 hours of work, you deploy 2 people, thus causing 2 units of fixed costs to be incurred for the same productivity. Same variable costs, twice the fixed cost.

This is just wacky.

Re: Working fewer hours would make us more productive

#43

I changed my working arrangement to 80% recently, so now I work four 8-hour day weeks. I wholeheartedly recommend it if you can make it work. I have wednesday off, so the week is divided into two-day stretches. Not sure if I'm any more productive (maybe), but I'm a lot happier. I suspect some coworkers are going to follow my lead, now that the precedent has been set.

Nice!

The question is not whether or not you're as productive, but rather, are you more than 80% as productive as you were before.

Re: Working fewer hours would make us more productive

#44
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never said it was for everyone, but I suspect people magnify the expected issues a lot. Everyone knows I won't be here on wednesdays, so we try to arrange things so I'm not a bottleneck during that time. If some really important deadline shows up, I'll just work the one wednesday and take thursday off instead, it's not a big deal. I haven't needed to yet though. Besides, assuming you're not on a really tiny team, i…

Or you're an early startup. Sometimes hinged-on-one-person is all you have because there are only a few people with some non-overlapping talents.

The definition of a really tiny team.

Re: Working fewer hours would make us more productive

#45
post #22
post #7

I agree that shorter hours are likely to be beneficial, but why are people trying to achieve this by passing a law? I think that this can be achieved with a softer approach. Imagine that when you sign up for a job, you select how many days per week do you want to work, from 3 to 6, with proportionate wage scale. That you can select what hours do you want to work. That it's easy to change this arrangement while you're…

The only way to change culture is through law. Look at seatbelt use: decades of public awareness campaigns did nothing, but once it became a legal requirement people switched. Also laws are the way to prevent a race to the bottom. If it's legal to work longer hours people will, and everyone else will do so to compete with them. Compare OHSA, see http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/ .

In France working 35h/week is actually enforced by law. I personally think it's good for productivity (France is still considered a very productive country, more than Germany for instance) but this law remains regularly critiziced. Many want it removed or updated.

It's very hard to measure human productivity unfortunately. It's much easier to measure the cost of an employee working less hours for the same salary.

Re: Working fewer hours would make us more productive

#46

I changed my working arrangement to 80% recently, so now I work four 8-hour day weeks. I wholeheartedly recommend it if you can make it work. I have wednesday off, so the week is divided into two-day stretches. Not sure if I'm any more productive (maybe), but I'm a lot happier. I suspect some coworkers are going to follow my lead, now that the precedent has been set.

I am doing exactly the same for quite some time already, but sadly nobody followed my lead yet. I don't loose hope though.

Re: Working fewer hours would make us more productive

#47

I changed my working arrangement to 80% recently, so now I work four 8-hour day weeks. I wholeheartedly recommend it if you can make it work. I have wednesday off, so the week is divided into two-day stretches. Not sure if I'm any more productive (maybe), but I'm a lot happier. I suspect some coworkers are going to follow my lead, now that the precedent has been set.

How did you manage to arrange that?

I can't imagine going to my boss and proposing I spend 20% less time working for the same amount of pay, and getting approval for that.

Re: Working fewer hours would make us more productive

#48
post #22
post #7

I agree that shorter hours are likely to be beneficial, but why are people trying to achieve this by passing a law? I think that this can be achieved with a softer approach. Imagine that when you sign up for a job, you select how many days per week do you want to work, from 3 to 6, with proportionate wage scale. That you can select what hours do you want to work. That it's easy to change this arrangement while you're…

The only way to change culture is through law. Look at seatbelt use: decades of public awareness campaigns did nothing, but once it became a legal requirement people switched. Also laws are the way to prevent a race to the bottom. If it's legal to work longer hours people will, and everyone else will do so to compete with them. Compare OHSA, see http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/ .

Also laws are the way to prevent a race to the bottom. If it's legal to work longer hours people will, and everyone else will do so to compete with them.

Oh, is that why almost everyone earns minimum wage?

Re: Working fewer hours would make us more productive

#49
post #31

I changed my working arrangement to 80% recently, so now I work four 8-hour day weeks. I wholeheartedly recommend it if you can make it work. I have wednesday off, so the week is divided into two-day stretches. Not sure if I'm any more productive (maybe), but I'm a lot happier. I suspect some coworkers are going to follow my lead, now that the precedent has been set.

I don't think your plan is for everyone since if you need to be synced with a team not working on Wednesdays is negative in the long run.

I've had this schedule for about two years now. Never had any syncing issues.

Re: Working fewer hours would make us more productive

#50
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We need to stop labeling the first of these persons as "successful" and second one as a "failure" It's not about judging employees from a moral standpoint, but getting the most skill and involvement going into your project/company. So, one of the questions would be: does 20h/wk + 20h/wk = 40h/wk skills+involvement, ie. is it linear? Wouldn't 20h/wk jobs be limited to inherently part-time, low importance tasks--whic…

> So, one of the questions would be: does 20h/wk + 20h/wk = 40h/wk skills+involvement, ie. is it linear? Wouldn't 20h/wk jobs be limited to inherently part-time, low importance tasks--which means you got to have plenty of funds to staff for them in the 1st place? It would seem to me that 2 people working 20h/wk offers some significant advantages over one person working 40h/wk. Firstly, it allows for fail-over; when o…

> To use an incredibly bad analogy: It's like moving from a monolithic "big iron" server to a pair or farm of smaller ones. There are many advantages, but it means it's now a distributed system with all the problems that can bring.

The thing is that, as you noted yourself, the analogy doesn't hold, for people are not AWS servers waiting for charge or failovers. If they chose to work 20h/wk, it's presumably to spend their time for other pursuits, eg. family, and they often won't be able to or won't agree to work more when their employer need it, perhaps unless it is planned well in advance (eg. Black Friday period).

> Basically, the company is renting two brains for the price of one.

Or, as I questioned, you might got two partly focused and perhaps less skilled people thinking about your problem, instead of someone more skilled totally focusing on it. As was brought in another comment, if you got two freelancers, then yeah, you could pick two brains, but if you have two family guys, not so much.

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