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Many See I.R.S. Penalties as More Affordable Than Health Insurance

nytimes.com

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Re: Many See I.R.S. Penalties as More Affordable Than Health Insurance

#141

Post by fpgeek »

dplgk wrote: post #75
tomohawk wrote: post #32

Inevitable result of thinking that adding even more government intervention would result in better, cheaper plans. If they were really interested in making better, cheaper plans, they would roll back most of the ACA, eliminate the restrictions on buying across state lines (actually allow competition), and transfer the tax incentives for getting insurance from employers to employees. Basically, all they had to do to m…

> eliminate the restrictions on buying across state lines What's the law that prevents that? (honestly wondering) > It would have been about a 10 page bill. It would never pass in the current gov't.

There's nothing that prevents companies from selling insurance along state lines - as long as they comply with the insurance regulations of every state they want to sell in.

See: http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/meme-busting-sel...

"Selling insurance across state lines" is a misleading way of saying that companies should be allowed to sell in a state without complying with that state's regulations, just the regulations of their home state. Given the example of how this played out in other markets (e.g. credit cards), a more accurate summary would be "remove state-level insurance regulation".

Re: Many See I.R.S. Penalties as More Affordable Than Health Insurance

#142

Post by Laaw »

mschuster91 wrote: post #120
Laaw wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the vast majority of us have healthcare, aren't really sick, and occasionally when we do get really sick, our insurance pays the bills. I had an emergency root canal earlier last year in the US, cost me zero dollars, and I've got one of those high-deductible plans (it's the HSA that covered that). I'm actually a little surprised you (or anyone on HN) are so eager to jump at the "worst case" stories and presume…

> I'm actually a little surprised you (or anyone on HN) is so eager to jump at the "worst case" stories and presume they're normal. These "worst case" stories should not happen at all in any civilized country! One of them is one too much.

Every country has people who fall through the cracks. It's noble and true to say this shouldn't happen, but it does, and in every country.

Germany, too.

Re: Many See I.R.S. Penalties as More Affordable Than Health Insurance

#143

Post by stvswn »

graeme wrote: post #54

I'm a Canadian. I'm curious to know what it would cost to match my level of coverage in the US. 1. Public medical care. Good care, normally easy to see a doctor. Excellent quality. Can use this as much as you need. 2. Occasional use of the parallel private billing system. Costs less than $300 Canadian to see a specialist. 3. Private coverage for paramedical claims (Physio, massage, drug plan, dental, vision, etc.). P…

What I want to know is, how much does it cost to provide that service to you? Not how much do you pay, but how much does it cost? If it's greater than $100 a month (how could it be less?), then someone is paying. What portion of Canada's budget is spent on the health system? Are you paying for your healthcare indirectly via taxes (in which case you're just unaware of the true cost) or is someone else paying (in which case you just won the redistribution game, congrats).

It still costs something to provide medical care. It's not like Canada doesn't need to pay their doctors. The cost in the U.S., contrary to public opinion, is not driven by insurance company greed. So, assuming the cost is about the same in Canada, how did you succeed in shifting the cost elsewhere in a manner that you're satisfied with?

And, if we were to replicate such a plan in the U.S., do you think we'd see similar results?

Re: Many See I.R.S. Penalties as More Affordable Than Health Insurance

#144

Post by djeikyb »

graeme wrote: post #85
djeikyb wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Arizona. My employer only offers high deductible health plans with a pre-tax health savings account. So, I pay ~350 USD per month for the plan to cover my wife and I. Then I also contribute to this health savings account, my employer kicks nothing in. For this, we get basic vision and dental completely covered. That is, routine checkups, cleanings, basic prescription eyewear. Everything is else is subject t…

Should I take that to mean that there is no option to get equivalent insurance to what we have in Canada?

I think it depends on the state. We don't have a national healthcare system (disregarding a couple programs for the old or very poor). Obamacare laid down only the barest of national standards.

Re: Many See I.R.S. Penalties as More Affordable Than Health Insurance

#145

Post by ossreality »

Laaw wrote: post #142
mschuster91 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm actually a little surprised you (or anyone on HN) is so eager to jump at the "worst case" stories and presume they're normal. These "worst case" stories should not happen at all in any civilized country! One of them is one too much.

Every country has people who fall through the cracks. It's noble and true to say this shouldn't happen, but it does, and in every country. Germany, too.

You're a shitty, intentionally dishonest person.

Re: Many See I.R.S. Penalties as More Affordable Than Health Insurance

#146

Post by vidarh »

stvswn wrote: post #133
mgkimsal wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand premiums going up annually. I don't understand 30-50% increases year on year.

It's was pretty easy to predict: allowing enrollment after a diagnosis was politically popular but a terrible economic disincentive to not buy insurance (because at that point, it isn't insurance -- it's a subscription plan for your treatments). The young and healthy needed to enroll for the economics to work, but the individual mandate was delayed for years -- because coercion isn't popular politically, and there wa…

> After that, let the market bring costs down by removing regulations.

This is hilarious, given that the US has the most expensive healthcare system in the world, outpacing far more regulated countries by vast amounts....

You might be right that you're hampered by bad regulation, but heavy regulation of the healthcare system have beaten the US consistently on cost for most of the developed world.

Re: Many See I.R.S. Penalties as More Affordable Than Health Insurance

#147

Post by tvanantwerp »

My wife is from Hong Kong, and we're both seriously considering moving back there because of the cost of health care in the US. It's been a constant strain on our finances--any little thing can set us back by hundreds or thousands, even while insured! We never had problems like this back in Hong Kong. I really wanted to make our lives work in the US, but I don't see how we'll ever get ahead when raises and bonuses get eaten away by health care.

Re: Many See I.R.S. Penalties as More Affordable Than Health Insurance

#148

Post by stvswn »

lukeschlather wrote: post #107
iofj wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In my opinion the public option wouldn't have cost us much ... If you look at the margins the insurers are using (the maximum a public option might be cheaper), they're not much. 10% is rare. Given government inefficiency, I'd expect a public option to have been at least as expensive, and probably more expensive. So why would a public option be cheaper ?

It varies significantly by state, but existing public options are similarly priced or cheaper in terms of cost per person than private healthcare. https://www.cms.gov/research-statistics-data-and-systems/sta...

Where in the link does it say that?

Re: Many See I.R.S. Penalties as More Affordable Than Health Insurance

#149

Post by beatpanda »

>"If something catastrophic happens," she said, “I feel like it’s better just to die.”

This is the richest country in the world in 2016, no other country has this problem, and this is the best our politics can do.

Sit with that thought for a little while.

Re: Many See I.R.S. Penalties as More Affordable Than Health Insurance

#150

Post by uptown »

MCRed wrote: post #109
simoncion wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think the fixation on "everyone should have good health insurance" is making this dysfunctional situation permanently unfixable. Nah. Every citizen should have good health insurance that requires no out-of-pocket expenditures. There should be one plan, available to every citizen. There should be one payer, the Federal Government. Anything else is a recipe for price-gouging and ballooning costs.

And what will happen is you will not get much health care. Certainly much less than you got in 2005, for much more than you paid in 2005. Insurers routinely pay out over %100 of premiums in claims. Meanwhile government programs with benefits- like welfare- blow %75 of their budget on overhead and only pay out %25. Economics is like physics. You can wish it wasn't so. You can look at optical illusions, but the reality…

"Insurers routinely pay out over %100 of premiums in claims."

Because there's zero controls around costs.

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