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UK Government: Climate change scientists broke the law hiding data

timesonline.co.uk

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Re: UK Government: Climate change scientists broke the law hiding data

#31

Post by anamax »

TheBranca18 wrote: post #13
TheBranca18 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Verbal purity? They are two totally different concepts. This isn't about making sure you use the right term, it's making sure you understand the difference between the two. And yes it was clear. I think anyone reading the article should come to that conclusion. Your comparison was shallow and silly and I called you on it.

I always thought that global warming was a subset of climate change. The fact that the title of the article included climate change made me puzzled as to why global warming was used.

> I always thought that global warming was a subset of climate change.

Not at all. The term "climate change" didn't come into the discussion until the temperature data started to diverge from the predictions. The terminology change was one of many things done to "hide the decline".

Re: UK Government: Climate change scientists broke the law hiding data

#32

Post by anamax »

ubulgaria wrote: post #25

At this point we don't need climate science -- we just need to observe the ice at poles and the dead coral reefs.

> we just need to observe the ice at poles

It's currently increasing at both.... The polar bear populations are increasing too.

> the dead coral reefs

Runoff from deforestation is killing most of them.

There's some effect from increased disolved CO2, but it goes both ways. (Some creatures/plants benefit, others have problems, and still others don't seem to care.)

Re: UK Government: Climate change scientists broke the law hiding data

#34

Post by Retric »

yannis wrote: post #14

I am glad this is breaking out slowly but surely and the C02 saga will probably be the greatest scientific scandal of our time. I have been following the story for as far as I remember as I had an interest in Ice Ages. This article http://www.warwickhughes.com/icecore/zjmar07.pdf is very good at debunking some of the myths. You can play with a model online with this http://cs.clark.edu/~mac/physlets/GEBM/ebm.htm#tipt…

I am shocked by how many up votes this got. C02 can get absorbed by the Oceans and other earth mechanisms and balance out. The worldwide CO2 production is 4.53 metric tons per capita, that’s metric tons of a gas. http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=wb-wdi&met=en_atm_co...

Calculate the increase in PPM of CO2 with the human production of CO2 and the numbers work out. It’s not like we can’t figure out how much CO2 we released in the last 10 years, and compare atmospheric concentrations of CO2 from 10 years ago. I could do these calculations for you, but work them out for yourself and you can see that yes humans do produce plenty of CO2 to alter the concentration in the atmosphere.

PS: Mass of gas in the atmosphere * concentration increase vs. Mass of gas produced.

Re: UK Government: Climate change scientists broke the law hiding data

#35

Post by gjm11 »

yannis wrote: post #14

I am glad this is breaking out slowly but surely and the C02 saga will probably be the greatest scientific scandal of our time. I have been following the story for as far as I remember as I had an interest in Ice Ages. This article http://www.warwickhughes.com/icecore/zjmar07.pdf is very good at debunking some of the myths. You can play with a model online with this http://cs.clark.edu/~mac/physlets/GEBM/ebm.htm#tipt…

> or you can write your own Clojure one, like the one we had yesterday here at HN.

The Clojure one we had yesterday that

1. looked only at data during the "hockey-stick handle" period;

2. found, in his very first graph, a steady increase in temperatures over that period whose magnitude (>2 degrees C) was greater than that in the usual "hockey-stick" graph (~ 0.7 degrees C);

3. plotted a bunch more graphs in ways that would inevitably make changes of ~0.7 degrees invisible (look at the last one -- range from -20 to 80 degrees on the y-axis);

3. claimed to have shown by all this that the hockey-stick is not real?

That one?

> CO2 can get absorbed by the Oceans and other earth mechanisms and balance out.

Perhaps it can, but since it's possible to measure CO2 levels and they are in fact increasing that's not actually happening.

Re: UK Government: Climate change scientists broke the law hiding data

#36

Post by nradov »

yannis wrote: post #14

I am glad this is breaking out slowly but surely and the C02 saga will probably be the greatest scientific scandal of our time. I have been following the story for as far as I remember as I had an interest in Ice Ages. This article http://www.warwickhughes.com/icecore/zjmar07.pdf is very good at debunking some of the myths. You can play with a model online with this http://cs.clark.edu/~mac/physlets/GEBM/ebm.htm#tipt…

While some CO2 will be absorbed by the oceans, that has consequences for ocean life by lowering the pH.

Re: UK Government: Climate change scientists broke the law hiding data

#37

Post by TheBranca18 »

kunley wrote: post #29
TheBranca18 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And like I said before, your comment was poor. You said it was the new swine flu when it's been around far longer. It was disingenuous and apparently calling you on it is a no no; so be it.

Yeah I bet you would say it's poor also if I said it differently, "global warming is overhyped" or whatever, probably because you just don't agree with it. Speaking of poorness of comments, I guess in this matter you can rely on how they are upvoted. No offense, just see for yourself..

I don't agree with it, but that's not the issue. Your comment wasn't worthwhile. You're arguing ad hominem and haven't even backed up your silly point still and it's four or five comments later.

Flipping it over on me doesn't change the fact that your comment was poor. There are also obvious counterarguments to your point that popularity means you're right but I don't need to go into them.

Re: UK Government: Climate change scientists broke the law hiding data

#38

Post by yannis »

Retric wrote: post #34
yannis wrote: post #14

I am glad this is breaking out slowly but surely and the C02 saga will probably be the greatest scientific scandal of our time. I have been following the story for as far as I remember as I had an interest in Ice Ages. This article http://www.warwickhughes.com/icecore/zjmar07.pdf is very good at debunking some of the myths. You can play with a model online with this http://cs.clark.edu/~mac/physlets/GEBM/ebm.htm#tipt…

I am shocked by how many up votes this got. C02 can get absorbed by the Oceans and other earth mechanisms and balance out. The worldwide CO2 production is 4.53 metric tons per capita, that’s metric tons of a gas. http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=wb-wdi&met=en_atm_co... Calculate the increase in PPM of CO2 with the human production of CO2 and the numbers work out. It’s not like we can’t figure out how much CO2 we r…

Quote from University of Bristol research (http://www.bris.ac.uk/news/2009/6649.html):

New data show that the balance between the airborne and the absorbed fraction of carbon dioxide has stayed approximately constant since 1850, despite emissions of carbon dioxide having risen from about 2 billion tons a year in 1850 to 35 billion tons a year now.

This suggests that terrestrial ecosystems and the oceans have a much greater capacity to absorb CO2 than had been previously expected.

No-one is denying that concentrations are rising, the Modelling of these processes is being questioned. Also I don't doubt the need for well thought action. In the 70's-80's similar lobbies killed nuclear energy which is one of the cleanest means of generating energy. Since hydrocarbons will one day run out, we should be spending more money towards this. Granted a portion can be generated with solar and wind, but solar or wind on its own cannot provide the current or projected needs.

Re: UK Government: Climate change scientists broke the law hiding data

#39

Post by TheBranca18 »

xenonite wrote: post #23

Global warming != Climate change 1.) Global warming increases average temperatures. 2.) Climate change might turn the weather to extremes, which implies greater temperature _variance_ locally. Now the pattern I see is: people are trying to focus on 1.), disprove it, then (falsly) claim that 2.) would also be wrong! This is not the case. 1.) does NOT relate to 2.) in any way! The climate change IS happening, this does…

Better than I could state it myself. Funny how this comment is ignored even though I tried to make this distinction in another comment :)
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