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Many See I.R.S. Penalties as More Affordable Than Health Insurance

nytimes.com

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Re: Many See I.R.S. Penalties as More Affordable Than Health Insurance

#31

Post by dpweb »

methodover wrote: post #17

> But plenty of healthy holdouts remain, and their resistance helps explain why insurers are worried about the financial viability of the exchanges over time. They say they sorely need more healthy customers to balance out the costs of covering the sicker, older people who have flocked to exchange plans. Ah, the tragedy of the commons at work. Healthy people don't buy insurance because it's too expensive. Insurance i…

Also a dark calculation in these people who won't carry (even catastrophic) coverage.

If I get a major disease and a half million or million dollar medical bill, I'm not going to pay it anyway.

Re: Many See I.R.S. Penalties as More Affordable Than Health Insurance

#32

Post by tomohawk »

Inevitable result of thinking that adding even more government intervention would result in better, cheaper plans.

If they were really interested in making better, cheaper plans, they would roll back most of the ACA, eliminate the restrictions on buying across state lines (actually allow competition), and transfer the tax incentives for getting insurance from employers to employees.

Basically, all they had to do to make healthcare more affordable was to open up the Federal employees plan to everyone and transfer the tax incentives to employees. This was actually proposed by both major parties prior. It would have been about a 10 page bill.

Re: Many See I.R.S. Penalties as More Affordable Than Health Insurance

#33

Post by ars »

The plans have been a disaster. They got rid of the only plan that makes sense for young people: Catastrophic insurance (deductible of over $10,000).

The plans that remain have high enough deductibles to be worthless, but low enough to be expensive. The plans helps almost nobody. The only people who gain value from the exchanges are those who get a subsidy.

To make things worse insurance companies are pulling out in droves, and prices are expected to go up 40% year to year.

Things are not looking good.

Re: Many See I.R.S. Penalties as More Affordable Than Health Insurance

#34

Post by abawany »

dpweb wrote: post #22
pmorici wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My current plan has an has an HSA component but the company that administrates the account, BenefitWallet, has some fine print in the account agreement that they charge an account fee for balances less than several thousand dollars. Realistically I only spend several hundred dollars per year on healthcare stuff so I don't think it is to my advantage to lock up that much money in a non-interest bearing account or pay…

I called the bank and they stopped charging me their HSA monthly fee, and credited back the past months fees - FYI. I won't say which bank it was, but it rhymes with Smells Smargo !

I opened an HSA with my credit union (First Tech Federal). It has no monthly fees and even pays 1% interest, which is tax free as well.

Re: Many See I.R.S. Penalties as More Affordable Than Health Insurance

#35

Post by mikeash »

dibujante wrote: post #25
methodover wrote: post #17

> But plenty of healthy holdouts remain, and their resistance helps explain why insurers are worried about the financial viability of the exchanges over time. They say they sorely need more healthy customers to balance out the costs of covering the sicker, older people who have flocked to exchange plans. Ah, the tragedy of the commons at work. Healthy people don't buy insurance because it's too expensive. Insurance i…

As a Canadian, I am astonished at how expensive even the cheapest of these plans are. My monthly healthcare cost amounts to $178, once you factor in the taxes I pay that go to healthcare. That's cheaper than any of the plans in this article. How do people find these prices bearable?

They're cheaper than getting sick and not having insurance. I'll pay almost anything to ensure that a sudden medical event doesn't bankrupt me.

Re: Many See I.R.S. Penalties as More Affordable Than Health Insurance

#36

Post by epistasis »

tomohawk wrote: post #32

Inevitable result of thinking that adding even more government intervention would result in better, cheaper plans. If they were really interested in making better, cheaper plans, they would roll back most of the ACA, eliminate the restrictions on buying across state lines (actually allow competition), and transfer the tax incentives for getting insurance from employers to employees. Basically, all they had to do to m…

>Inevitable result of thinking that adding even more government intervention would result in better, cheaper plans.

and

>open up the Federal employees plan to everyone and transfer the tax incentives to employees.

Seem somewhat in contradiction. I'd go with the first being the incorrect part.

Re: Many See I.R.S. Penalties as More Affordable Than Health Insurance

#37

Post by djrogers »

pbreit wrote: post #9
jhulla wrote: post #4

Personal experience with ACA: As of 2016, we're onto our 3rd insurer. Each prior one has dropped our local doctors, physicians groups and hospital. With each insurance change, our deductible has gone up, our premium has increased and our co-pay, co-insurance has increased. In effect, our ACA plan has become an extremely expensive catastrophic insurance plan.

Are you getting subsidized or do you make $85k+? Why only catastrophic?

likely because the incredibly high base deductibles (6k per person for example) on most exchange plans mean that most people will never actually utilize any insurance.

Re: Many See I.R.S. Penalties as More Affordable Than Health Insurance

#38

Post by douche »

dibujante wrote: post #25
methodover wrote: post #17

> But plenty of healthy holdouts remain, and their resistance helps explain why insurers are worried about the financial viability of the exchanges over time. They say they sorely need more healthy customers to balance out the costs of covering the sicker, older people who have flocked to exchange plans. Ah, the tragedy of the commons at work. Healthy people don't buy insurance because it's too expensive. Insurance i…

As a Canadian, I am astonished at how expensive even the cheapest of these plans are. My monthly healthcare cost amounts to $178, once you factor in the taxes I pay that go to healthcare. That's cheaper than any of the plans in this article. How do people find these prices bearable?

I had an emergency appendectomy done in a little rinky-dink Quebec hospital. I was driven in an ambulance 150 miles, had general anesthesia, scope surgery, and an overnight stay in the hospital. Had to pay out-of-pocket for the procedure in cash. It was, all told, less expensive than the half-hour echocardiogram I had a couple years ago. Similar surgeries in the States have cost my insurance north of twenty grand.

It's insane.

Re: Many See I.R.S. Penalties as More Affordable Than Health Insurance

#39

Post by privong »

ars wrote: post #33

The plans have been a disaster. They got rid of the only plan that makes sense for young people: Catastrophic insurance (deductible of over $10,000). The plans that remain have high enough deductibles to be worthless, but low enough to be expensive. The plans helps almost nobody. The only people who gain value from the exchanges are those who get a subsidy. To make things worse insurance companies are pulling out in…

> The plans have been a disaster. They got rid of the only plan that makes sense for young people: Catastrophic insurance (deductible of over $10,000).

Don't forget, that was by design. The law needs young, healthy people to put money into the system to support the expenses insurance companies would encounter due to the increased coverage for less healthy people.

Re: Many See I.R.S. Penalties as More Affordable Than Health Insurance

#40

Post by mgkimsal »

mecameron wrote: post #18
jhulla wrote: post #4

Personal experience with ACA: As of 2016, we're onto our 3rd insurer. Each prior one has dropped our local doctors, physicians groups and hospital. With each insurance change, our deductible has gone up, our premium has increased and our co-pay, co-insurance has increased. In effect, our ACA plan has become an extremely expensive catastrophic insurance plan.

Personal experience with nearly all health care insurance plans since the 90's: Each year the premiums go up, the out of pocket costs increase, and benefits decrease (beyond more than general inflation).

I understand premiums going up annually. I don't understand 30-50% increases year on year.
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