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Why Are 20-Somethings Retiring?

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Re: Why Are 20-Somethings Retiring?

#51

Post by jazzyk »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #43
jazzyk wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"...you aren't necessarily done working for the rest of your life, just that working has become completely optional" Optional - as long as you live in your parents' basement and don't want to start a family. :-)

> Optional - as long as you live in your parents' basement and don't want to start a family. :-) I think this is where there's a fundamental disconnect in cultures. I'm 33, my wife 31. We're about to have kids, and we've strongly considered moving in with my parents, not only to spend more time with them, but also to provide care when necessary as well as have their help watching and raising our children. Just becaus…

I come from a culture with close multi-generational ties, so I don't think there is anything wrong with your potential decision at all - if it is your _choice_, not _necessity_

Re: Why Are 20-Somethings Retiring?

#52

Post by nostrademons »

forgottenpass wrote: post #42
tinalumfoil wrote: post #19

> When you're in your twenties you should be spending that time really exploring and thinking about the things that give you meaning. Once you start growing up and living a life more you won't be able to do that again. -Digit CEO (from video) I hate the idea that once you leave college and get a job your life of having fun is over. As though fiscal irresponsibility is necessary for finding your life's "meaning" and y…

I hate the idea that once you leave college and get a job your life of having fun is over. As though fiscal irresponsibility is necessary for finding your life's "meaning" It's not necessary, it's just that the market forces have made it such that fiscal responsibility is tightly bound to spending most your productive time, energy and drive at working. People barely have time to for family next to work. Think the mar…

It's not, though - market forces have made it such that fiscal responsibility is bound toward making more money than you spend. And you make money by generating value for other people. If you can generate & capture more money than the average person captures, but live like the average person, then the surplus becomes available for any existential searching you want.

Re: Why Are 20-Somethings Retiring?

#53

Post by cobaltblue »

SonicSoul wrote: post #45
hwstar wrote: post #2

It shouldn't be called retirement. It is probably more like a temporary hiatus. Also, it isn't just 20-somethings. US employment has been somewhat of a raw deal in the last 15 years for all age groups. Some people have realized that working to live just isn't worth it. There's a lot of bullshit work assigned in a typical corporate job, and this 'impedance mismatch' forces some people with financial strength to quit a…

There's a lot of bullshit work assigned in a typical corporate job What jobs don't have that? As if startups magically solved this problem by giving employees nothing but innovative thought provoking problems and everything else is handled by worker elfs. No, every place has its share of bs work. the difference is that a portion (majority?) of corporate folks stopped caring to actually solve problems. Instead they do…

Almost every not-typical-big-corporate job has less bullshit work assigned than the lot of BS assigned to typical big corporate job workers. Startups and even mid-size companies don't magically solve the problem of having to do BS work, there's typically just a lot less of it. When what you do or don't do is all up to you, the portion of BS work goes to 0 because you don't want to do it so you don't. Companies fall on a BS scale that correlates to their size and determines how much BS work you don't want to do that you have to do anyway (or rather, you always have a choice, but if you don't do it then you're fired/the company goes out of business/a customer is pissed off and sues you/etc. which makes it not much of a choice at all).

Re: Why Are 20-Somethings Retiring?

#54

Post by xwkd »

PaulHoule wrote: post #33

Nothing gets in the New York Times unless it interests people over 50. Back when the boomers were young there were huge numbers of article about hippies, drugs and all that stuff because old people like to read about what young people are doing and try it out for themselves. It makes them feel young. Old farts have been obsessed with iTunes, iPhones, iPads, and all that i-stuff for Apple as long as they've been makin…

Funny. Faith in institutions created a great society. People worked together for the common good. Then, the corruption and abuses of power in those institutions left that society disillusioned; uncommitted. Everyone became disengaged and individualistic. What happens after that? It really seems like a pattern in large social structures. Maybe it isn't, though. It's hard to say without generational bias. Any sociologists want to chime in?

Re: Why Are 20-Somethings Retiring?

#55

Post by drzaiusapelord »

fapjacks wrote: post #15
mrec wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they're neither working nor financially independent, what are they living on? Not a rhetorical question; I don't live in the US, and am a bit vague about its welfare system. Is this essentially about people moving back in with family?

We have nothing approaching basic income or housing that anybody could live off reasonably. Either these kids are living with parents, living off parent's money, or are living out of their cars. There is no in between here. I suspect that it's the former, which is really giving an awful impression about what is possible in the States. The vast majority of Americans need to work their asses off just to make rent. If y…

>We have nothing approaching basic income or housing that anybody could live off reasonably.

State welfare programs, section 8, food stamps, "earned income credit", medicaid, SSI, TANF, SNAP, etc. There's lots of aid in the US. Over 100m people nationally are on some level of means tested welfare. That's pushing one third of this nation. National spending accounts for $1T in welfare spending. That's slightly less than Mexico's entire GDP; a country of 122m.

http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/PA694.p...

The narrative of the US not having any welfare is asinine. In fact, the spending is staggering. When I lived in poorer neighborhoods in Chicago, most of my neighbors were on a fair amount of welfare to the point where they never had to bother getting a job. If you're willing to live in an urban area and live a modest lifestyle its largely trivial to game welfare benefits for a living.

Re: Why Are 20-Somethings Retiring?

#56

Post by pc86 »

sp332 wrote: post #16
tastynacho wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's a lot of bullshit work assigned in a typical corporate job yeah its called being young and being inexperienced. Gotta put the time in before you're qualified to enjoy the meat..

And with no guarantee of upward mobility, why would someone put up with it?

Nothing is guaranteed, so I'm not sure what the lack of one has to do with anything.

Re: Why Are 20-Somethings Retiring?

#57

Post by creshal »

twothamendment wrote: post #23
hwstar wrote: post #2

It shouldn't be called retirement. It is probably more like a temporary hiatus. Also, it isn't just 20-somethings. US employment has been somewhat of a raw deal in the last 15 years for all age groups. Some people have realized that working to live just isn't worth it. There's a lot of bullshit work assigned in a typical corporate job, and this 'impedance mismatch' forces some people with financial strength to quit a…

Working to live just isn't worth it? What does that leave you with? When I started working I worked jobs I didn't want to do for the rest of my life, but it wasn't just about the money. I leaned skills, learned to work and learned I better find a new, better job - even if it is only slightly better. Some jobs only leave you with one important thing - a work ethic, and that is what gets you a better job, someday. I kn…

How long are people going to pretend that the lack of full employment for now close to 40 years everywhere across the globe is the fault of people being "too lazy" to work?

You can't fix globalization and automation with personal work ethics.

Re: Why Are 20-Somethings Retiring?

#58

Post by bryanlarsen »

krisdol wrote: post #4
hwstar wrote: post #2

It shouldn't be called retirement. It is probably more like a temporary hiatus. Also, it isn't just 20-somethings. US employment has been somewhat of a raw deal in the last 15 years for all age groups. Some people have realized that working to live just isn't worth it. There's a lot of bullshit work assigned in a typical corporate job, and this 'impedance mismatch' forces some people with financial strength to quit a…

They're defining retirement as "you don't have a job and aren't looking for one", which is an egregious stretch of a definition. They're not financially independent or retired, they've given up looking for work worth doing.

That's the definition in the article for "out of the workforce".

Re: Why Are 20-Somethings Retiring?

#59

Post by pc86 »

cobaltblue wrote: post #44
DINKDINK wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

300e6*.0001/100 = 300 people in the USA. There's probably more than 300, 20 year olds who are living off private incomes.

Even worse, he said of 20-somethings (not out of the whole population, and not just 20 year olds) which leaves a start number around 45 million, or a mere 45 people in the USA. It's actually pretty easy to become financially independent before you hit 30 if you finish college on time (while you're 23) and get a 6-figure job out of college, and work for a few years with a small (sub-25k/yr) annual cost of living.

It's also "actually pretty easy to become financially independent" if you hit the lottery. Both our examples aren't really conducive to an actual discussion.

1. The number of fields allowing a new grad to get a six-figure job are very small.

2. The number of places offering the above while also allowing the new grad to live in an area where they can have a sub-$2k/mo footprint are incredibly limited.

3. Of the people who are actually able to take advantage of the above, the majority of them will have no interest in doing so. For every highly-compensated employee at Google living in a van in the parking lot there are several in houses they can't afford with credit card and student loan debt to boot.

4. Gaining financial independence for the sake of gaining financial independence is sort of a pointless goal.

My guess is if you collected every person in the US who retired by the age of 30 and removed those who inherited money, won the lottery, and started a business, you could fit them in in a single large room.

Re: Why Are 20-Somethings Retiring?

#60

Post by [deleted] »

mrec wrote: post #10
krisdol wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're defining retirement as "you don't have a job and aren't looking for one", which is an egregious stretch of a definition. They're not financially independent or retired, they've given up looking for work worth doing.

If they're neither working nor financially independent, what are they living on? Not a rhetorical question; I don't live in the US, and am a bit vague about its welfare system. Is this essentially about people moving back in with family?

[deleted]
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