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Trails – Modern MVC Web Framework for Node.js

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Re: Trails – Modern MVC Web Framework for Node.js

#71

Post by edwinnathaniel »

_qbjt wrote: post #68
dpacmittal wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why?

For me, it's personal preference. Node.js is used and loved by many, but to me it's just an asynchronous event loop running on a single threaded process with a JavaScript API. I've written performant Node.js code and maybe for smaller web services it's great. But for a backend server, I worry about human error in large, evolving projects (especially when it comes time to scale). Other issues faced by myself and colle…

I'm with you on this one (except the Elixir part, never tried, can't comment).

Many past NodeJS stories/use-cases from the big name companies like LinkedIN, eBay, Wal-mart seemed to use NodeJS as a front-end server. The back-end code is still something else (or perhaps even legacy code). I know someone who works for another big name company that uses NodeJS for their new project doing exactly this as well: a front-end server that communicates with multiple/many services behind the scenes. Those services are written in Java/C#/C++.

Meanwhile, a few other NodeJS based commercial apps (e.g. Trello) does not look too complicated when they begin the project...

Re: Trails – Modern MVC Web Framework for Node.js

#72

Post by smokeyj »

im_down_w_otp wrote: post #63
smokeyj wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dismiss it, but you don't have to tell the entire world about your uninformed opinion. It's not as valuable as you suspect.

Opinion? Both sentences were questions. The first included a hyperbolic approximation (i.e. "50th") and the second included a legitimate direct question that infers an indirect question about the weird pace of churn and factionalization that seems to infect the Node.js community more than any other community. If every other month a new thing was made, marketed, HN'd, and Twitter-culted that did basically the same thi…

I'm just saying if you have a criticism share it. If your problem is being an nth iteration then that's not really comment worthy. Sure the node ecosystem has an abundance of modules and frameworks. I don't consider it harmful and it seems the developer mindshare sorts through these "problems" with ease.

Re: Trails – Modern MVC Web Framework for Node.js

#73

Post by sgress454 »

clay_to_n wrote: post #65
kevinob11 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough, though I do have some experience with shipping to production. I do have quite a few other issues with sails and waterline (ORM). Waterline provided lifecycle hooks, but limited their power and had poor documentation on extending them. Same for sails core itself, it had hooks for writing modules and extensions, but no one outside of the core team knew well how to use them. As for migrations I ended up doi…

Lack of documentation has probably been my biggest gripe with Sails. The documentation on their website was broken for almost a year ("but it's on github! Go find it there"). They had a Getting Started "Sailscasts" series that was helpful, and then they released the beginning of the V2 videos (using a SPA w/ Angular), but only got three videos in.

What's broken on the website? All the docs on http://sailsjs.org/ work for me.

Re: Trails – Modern MVC Web Framework for Node.js

#74

Post by mikermcneil »

bhanu423 wrote: post #4

Awesome to see a project from the SailsJS team. SailsJS was the first MVC framework which I worked it and was extremely easy to begin with. Kudos for using ES6.

Sorry for the confusion. This isn't a project from us. Travis Webb (@tjwebb) was added as a contributor in mid-2015, but unfortunately it did not work out. The only contributor who was removed from Sails was Travis, in late November. And ever since, he has been doing everything he can to discredit our project, including claiming that the Sails team is working on Trails, or that Sails is "abandoned". Travis is the _only_ former Sails contributor (i.e. someone with actual write access to our repos) working on Trails.

If you have a technical problem with Sails, bring that up with me or another member of our core team on GitHub. But please realize that this fork is not about technical issues; it is a personal vendetta against me and the Sails.js project.

Re: Trails – Modern MVC Web Framework for Node.js

#75

Post by mikermcneil »

traviswebb wrote: post #70
nodenodenode wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The key difference being that the Rails and Merb teams were full of great engineers, and that Merb was mostly meant to solve some specific Rails pain points. Native english speakers on the Merb team also probably could avoid using "actually" three times in two sentences. The Trails project seems like a lot of flash and "saying the right things" with personal enmity. for now there's no reason to expect it to be a bett…

> for now there's no reason to expect it to be a better project than SailsJS in any way "nodenodenode" account created 12 hours ago just to write this comment. I wonder who this is...

Certainly you're not alleging that I created that account to write that comment? Not only do I not have time for that kind of dishonesty, Sails was created while I was running one of those "kind of consulting shops".

Please leave me and my team alone.

Re: Trails – Modern MVC Web Framework for Node.js

#76

Post by mikermcneil »

roblabla wrote: post #34
romanovcode wrote: post #32

>Trails is built and maintained by former members of the Sails.js core team Just no. I was working with Sails.js for about a year now on production systems - it's horrible. Without a doubt I can say that it's the worst framework I've ever worked with. Especially their so called "orm" - we actually had to switch it off and work with pure mysql queries instead because it can't even do migrations (it deletes everything…

While I haven't played with Sails.JS, I've heard many people complain about how bad it was. However, just because the people building this new framework used to work on the Sails.JS Framework, you're going to dismiss it as being "automatically bad" ? I didn't look at Trails.JS so I don't know how it looks, but this kind of attitude seems extremely toxic and detrimental to the Open Source space. It makes me sad this i…

Travis did not play a meaningful role in the development of Sails. He was a contributor for less than a year and made a total of 37 commits: https://github.com/balderdashy/sails/commits?author=tjwebb

That said, I wish Trails the best-- I just think it's important to point out information that is being misrepresented.

If you have any technical issues with Sails, I would appreciate hearing about those on GitHub.

Re: Trails – Modern MVC Web Framework for Node.js

#77

Post by mikermcneil »

stephengoodwin wrote: post #15
clay_to_n wrote: post #10

Weird situation with this and Sails right now. Sails.js development has basically stagnated in the past year, and many people in the community believe Balderdash, the company behind it, aren't giving it the attention it deserves (they have a few new projects they're working on). Travis Webb and his team behind Trails were kicked out of Balderdash (not clear if fired from the company or just removed from GitHub group)…

The last time I checked in on Sails.js about 9 months ago, Mike McNeil, Cody Stoltman, and Scott Gress had just gotten back from YC for Treeline ( http://treeline.io ).[1] [1] https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/the-treeline-company

We are working on Treeline, a tool that compiles Sails.js apps. Our backend is running on Sails.js in production.

Fortunately, Travis did not change the Crunchbase page for Treeline. However, he did deface the Crunchbase pages for Sails, Waterline, Balderdash, and me personally (I've since reverted them).

Re: Trails – Modern MVC Web Framework for Node.js

#78

Post by mikermcneil »

romanovcode wrote: post #32

>Trails is built and maintained by former members of the Sails.js core team Just no. I was working with Sails.js for about a year now on production systems - it's horrible. Without a doubt I can say that it's the worst framework I've ever worked with. Especially their so called "orm" - we actually had to switch it off and work with pure mysql queries instead because it can't even do migrations (it deletes everything…

Sorry to hear you had a bad experience. The auto-migration support in Sails is a development-only feature, but for production, there is a great project from Danni Friedland called sails-migrations: https://github.com/BlueHotDog/sails-migrations

You might also want to check out sails-db-migrate: https://github.com/building5/sails-db-migrate

At Treeline, we're using sails-migrations in production.

Re: Trails – Modern MVC Web Framework for Node.js

#79

Post by DonHopkins »

jessaustin wrote: post #55
dimgl wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's obsolete, what should replace it?

Here's one idea: http://cycle.js.org/model-view-intent.html

It's not just about replacing the controller, which nobody understands or agrees on [1] -- it's about getting away from the idea that you can oversimplify user interface architecture down to a holy trinity of just three elemental concepts.

You could just as well ask "If Earth, Wind and Fire [2] are obsolete, what replaces them?"

There's more to modern chemistry than Earth, Wind and Electricity.

[1] http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WhatsaControllerAnyway

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_element

Re: Trails – Modern MVC Web Framework for Node.js

#80

Post by clay_to_n »

sgress454 wrote: post #73
clay_to_n wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lack of documentation has probably been my biggest gripe with Sails. The documentation on their website was broken for almost a year ("but it's on github! Go find it there"). They had a Getting Started "Sailscasts" series that was helpful, and then they released the beginning of the V2 videos (using a SPA w/ Angular), but only got three videos in.

What's broken on the website? All the docs on http://sailsjs.org/ work for me.

It works now. It didn't for most of 2015. The index page would send you to broken pages (but if you went to GitHub you could find the info).
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