Is the Drive for Success Making Our Children Sick? • Hacker News Board

Re: Is the Drive for Success Making Our Children Sick?

#121

Post by thsealienbstrds » Mon, Jan 04, 2016, 12:24 PM UTC

I am not a doctor but I suspect that it has a lot to do with our physical limitations.

I think a big impacting factor from the adjustments made to the program is the fact they created study groups.

Many students are socially isolated, that is by itself something that creates anxiety and depression. Being in a competitive environment without social supports doesn't help.

Human beings are social animals, we need physical touch and proximity to survive. Even just having a conversation with friends and family is something that generally relaxes people. Sure, it may not always be the case but if you ask me, human beings have evolved in a way that we have become very dependent on eachother's physical presence for our mental/physical well being.

Re: Is the Drive for Success Making Our Children Sick?

#122

Post by eric-hu » Mon, Jan 04, 2016, 12:50 PM UTC

analog31 wrote: post #68

Many of the posts have to do with the expectations of business, society, etc. Maybe we parents have something to do with it too. I should be happy. I'm educated, have interesting and rewarding work to do, have a roof over my head, and get to play music on the side. I've got two great kids, who are both smarter than me. What's wrong with that? Why should I be neurotic about success? Why should push myself and my kids…

It seems like there's an assumption in your post and in your fears: unhappiness comes from poverty and a lack of high-demand skills. I think that's a common narrative in America, and I certainly have it somewhat ingrained.

I recently moved to Southeast Asia from America. There's a stark contrast between the two places in terms of economic development and quality of goods. People here aren't any less happy. If anything, they feel happier in the poorer or lower tech places I visit.

I feel like my American education and citizenship grant me so many opportunities compared to most that I meet here. Still, I don't believe we differ in the maximum happiness that we can experience.

This isn't to say wealth and education are unnecessary or bad. I'm just adding my observations to challenge the assumptions that more wealth or education will lead to more happiness, justifying "short" term sacrifices in happiness for a few years.

Re: Is the Drive for Success Making Our Children Sick?

#123

Post by saint_fiasco » Mon, Jan 04, 2016, 1:26 PM UTC

Sacho wrote: post #119

ryandrake wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar to Prisoner's dilemma. We each can either over-work our kids or not. If nobody over-works their kids, everyone wins (nobody has an advantage, we create a better, less competitive society). If you over-work your kid and I don't, then my kid loses and your kid wins. If I over-work my kid and you don't, then my kid wins and your kid loses. Therefore, everyone chooses to over-work their kids, and everyone loses (…

Except this is not a zero-sum game. Some of the waste created by this machine of competitiveness is our constantly improving standard of living. In fact, I'd say that this sentiment(that all your hard work and stress leads to nothing) pretty much exemplifies the middle class. The kids from poor families don't want to stay at the same relative advantage, they want to do better than you so they can lift themselves out…

I find it hard to believe that forcing kids into violin lessons because it will help them get into college has any kind of positive externalities.

I think that those kind of unproductive signaling games are done more by the middle and upper classes, always running as fast as they can to stay in the same place.

Re: Is the Drive for Success Making Our Children Sick?

#124

Post by dopeboy » Mon, Jan 04, 2016, 2:33 PM UTC

eric-hu wrote: post #122

analog31 wrote: post #68

Many of the posts have to do with the expectations of business, society, etc. Maybe we parents have something to do with it too. I should be happy. I'm educated, have interesting and rewarding work to do, have a roof over my head, and get to play music on the side. I've got two great kids, who are both smarter than me. What's wrong with that? Why should I be neurotic about success? Why should push myself and my kids…

It seems like there's an assumption in your post and in your fears: unhappiness comes from poverty and a lack of high-demand skills. I think that's a common narrative in America, and I certainly have it somewhat ingrained. I recently moved to Southeast Asia from America. There's a stark contrast between the two places in terms of economic development and quality of goods. People here aren't any less happy. If anythin…

Could you briefly go into why you moved to SE asia from america?

Re: Is the Drive for Success Making Our Children Sick?

#125

Post by dawnbreez » Mon, Jan 04, 2016, 3:43 PM UTC

hguant wrote: post #80

analog31 wrote: post #68

Many of the posts have to do with the expectations of business, society, etc. Maybe we parents have something to do with it too. I should be happy. I'm educated, have interesting and rewarding work to do, have a roof over my head, and get to play music on the side. I've got two great kids, who are both smarter than me. What's wrong with that? Why should I be neurotic about success? Why should push myself and my kids…

I nearly failed out of high school and college because I spent my time on things I found more interesting that classes - computers and journalism for the most part. The skills I learned outside of my studies have been more useful by far than anything I learned in a classroom. I feel like we've pushed people away from the kinds of self directed learning that really stick with a student towards the easily quantifiable…

I did the same, and have nothing to show for it. I wonder if there's some personality trait, some sprt of drive that helps people succeed in any environment?

Re: Is the Drive for Success Making Our Children Sick?

#126

Post by mamcx » Mon, Jan 04, 2016, 3:51 PM UTC

hkmurakami wrote: post #101

analog31 wrote: post #68

Many of the posts have to do with the expectations of business, society, etc. Maybe we parents have something to do with it too. I should be happy. I'm educated, have interesting and rewarding work to do, have a roof over my head, and get to play music on the side. I've got two great kids, who are both smarter than me. What's wrong with that? Why should I be neurotic about success? Why should push myself and my kids…

> Because I can see that my class -- the middle class -- is vanishing, so the expectations of my generation are no longer valid. Get an OK degree in something worthwhile and work hard. Gone. I literally followed exactly the same education and career path as my father. That's gone. This attitude (which I hear all the time, not just from you) reminds me of what's been going on in East Asia for decades now: the ultra pr…

The new "The Little Prince" movie is about this. Great film

Re: Is the Drive for Success Making Our Children Sick?

#127

Post by branchless » Mon, Jan 04, 2016, 5:17 PM UTC

antimagic wrote: post #113

branchless wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know it. This man knows how things are priced. Isn't it amazing, all these capitalist landlords who could be taking a greater cut of their tenant's labour but somehow are not.

Rental demand is fairly inelastic though - everyone needs a roof over their head. The main force keeping prices down is competition, not the fact that landlords are being kind. If land taxes are increased, then all landlords will raise their prices, and the market will bear it - the other choice is to end up living in the street. The advantage of the LVT is that in theory the market could bear the price increase beca…

This all agrees with what I said. You are preaching to the converted :-)

Re: Is the Drive for Success Making Our Children Sick?

#128

Post by jsprogrammer » Mon, Jan 04, 2016, 6:46 PM UTC

logicchains wrote: post #114

jsprogrammer wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one has the right to make you work. However, enough work must be done to allow you to exist.

>No one has the right to make you work. However, enough work must be done to allow you to exist. These two sentences are logically inconsistent; if enough work must be done to allow you to exist, then that means someone must be made to work.

You'd need to define "made". As another commenter pointed out (sorry, HN's interface is terrible, and I can't see your name anymore), an alternative is that you no longer exist.

Re: Is the Drive for Success Making Our Children Sick?

#129

Post by Jordrok » Mon, Jan 04, 2016, 7:13 PM UTC

meric wrote: post #47

icanhackit wrote: post #42

Expectations surrounding education have spun out of control. On top of a seven-hour school day, our kids march through hours of nightly homework, daily sports practices and band rehearsals, and weekend-consuming assignments and tournaments. Each activity is seen as a step on the ladder to a top college, an enviable job and a successful life. Small-print: Successful life not guaranteed. Neither is happiness but we did…

Read HN. Write code. Play games. Eat with family & friends. Repeat. Thank you, universe.

This also describes my current situation almost exactly, and generally I am pretty happy with things. I know that these are the things that make me happy and I try to keep them in balance.

Sometimes though there are some nagging doubts that creep in. I worry that the balance I'm comfortable with doesn't quite line up with what society seems to expect, or at least idealize. Sometimes I feel like I "should" be doing more, but whenever I try to push myself harder I just end up expending a lot of energy spinning my wheels. I worry that something unforeseen and external could pop up and disrupt my current situation, or at least make it unmaintainable. I guess that's life though - adapt and enjoy.

Re: Is the Drive for Success Making Our Children Sick?

#130

Post by eric-hu » Mon, Jan 04, 2016, 7:53 PM UTC

dopeboy wrote: post #124

eric-hu wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like there's an assumption in your post and in your fears: unhappiness comes from poverty and a lack of high-demand skills. I think that's a common narrative in America, and I certainly have it somewhat ingrained. I recently moved to Southeast Asia from America. There's a stark contrast between the two places in terms of economic development and quality of goods. People here aren't any less happy. If anythin…

Could you briefly go into why you moved to SE asia from america?

Sure. I quit my job in June and a friend invited me to visit. I checked out some local communities corresponding to my interests in America: tech, startups and dancing. The communities were lively, yet different enough that they caught my interest.