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How A Great Product Can Be Bad News: Apple, iPad, and the Closed Mac

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Re: How A Great Product Can Be Bad News: Apple, iPad, and the Closed Mac

#161

Post by MrFoof »

Scriptor wrote: post #78
scott_s wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, because most people don't want a device . They want to be able to watch videos, read books and listen to music. The enabling device is incidental.

Netbooks, which are basically the same price or cheaper, can do the same as the above and are much less locked in. More immediately, they also have Flash support, multitasking, and USB ports. People still need more heavy-duty computers to do those other things as well as for non-leisure stuff. The advantage of an iPhone was that it was extremely portable and you could just pull it out on the bus to pass the time. The…

>The iPad is barely more portable than a laptop, and much less functional.

How many users actually use all the functionality?

My sister bought a 15" MacBook Pro for Xmas. She checks work e-mail via Outlook Web Access, occasionally works with MS Office documents for the office, uses an IM client, YouTube, browses the web for vacation ideas/planning, iTunes, iPhoto and... that's it. Not a luddite. Quite savvy and bright. Only 30. Yet that's all she does with a $1700 laptop.

Granted, you could do the same with a netbook, however, the iPad has nothing to really "mess up". There's not much to configure. There's not much updating. It's instant on. It has better battery life. For her intents and purposes, it does 95% of what she wants. I can say this for my parents, and either most of my friends, or their spouses.

For these types of users the lack of a full-blown OS is actually an advantage. There's nothing "to mess up". There's very few things to configure. No boot times. Longer battery life. Easier to carry around. Cheaper than a conventional laptop or desktop. Can be always online (WiFi or 3G). Presumably a very simple "restore" or factory default reset process. I would also assume you could get a MobileMe account and have all your data backed up in a data center somewhere for easy restore.

I, personally, am not sold on the device. I already have an iPhone, and I have different computing needs as a developer. However I won't ignore the fact that it'll cut the mustard for a large number of users as an "occasional" computer, if not a primary computing device.

Re: How A Great Product Can Be Bad News: Apple, iPad, and the Closed Mac

#162

Post by jonknee »

MrFoof wrote: post #161
Scriptor wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Netbooks, which are basically the same price or cheaper, can do the same as the above and are much less locked in. More immediately, they also have Flash support, multitasking, and USB ports. People still need more heavy-duty computers to do those other things as well as for non-leisure stuff. The advantage of an iPhone was that it was extremely portable and you could just pull it out on the bus to pass the time. The…

>The iPad is barely more portable than a laptop, and much less functional. How many users actually use all the functionality? My sister bought a 15" MacBook Pro for Xmas. She checks work e-mail via Outlook Web Access, occasionally works with MS Office documents for the office, uses an IM client, YouTube, browses the web for vacation ideas/planning, iTunes, iPhoto and... that's it. Not a luddite. Quite savvy and brigh…

... And to use the iPad she still needs to have the laptop to sync it to.

Re: How A Great Product Can Be Bad News: Apple, iPad, and the Closed Mac

#163

Post by ekiru »

GHFigs wrote: post #75
Scriptor wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That just means a device for people who have very few technical skills will need a near-constant and perfectly working internet connection to be passably useful.

I'm confused. How does skill level factor into it? And what is wrong with assuming that internet connections are usually available?

Assuming that internet connections are usually available ensures that your device will be utterly useless in many rural areas. In some places around my city, there is no broadband internet available at all, perhaps even when considering offerings from cell phone networks.

There is one place in our city that offers free wifi, and few people are aware of it because they do not advertise it. Our library has computers one can use, but no wifi.

People living in and around major cities may want to pretend that everyone is able to have nearly continuous internet access, but that's not the case. Even assuming one has a smartphone, Edge isn't a pleasant thing to attempt to even browse the internet over.

Re: How A Great Product Can Be Bad News: Apple, iPad, and the Closed Mac

#164

Post by jakez »

coffeemug wrote: post #12
zacharypinter wrote: post #2

This post adequately sums up my concerns. Here we have a device that doesn't support USB thumbdrives, doesn't support dropbox (at least system-wide, I assume the dropbox iphone app would work), is unable to run ruby or any of my other dev scripts/tools, cannot install firefox or firefox plugins, etc. I do not want to see computing head this direction.

My dad, mom, grandma, and grandpa can watch videos, look at photos of their kids/grandkids, send e-mails to their relatives oversees, and read their favorite books on it, all without the need for a "computer-savvy guy" who has to teach them how it works, and fix it when it's broken. In other words, it's a logical conclusion of the personal computer revolution. I understand you need to run your Ruby scripts, but this…

I've actually been meaning to get an iMac or Macbook for my parents to replace the old desktop at home. BUT when I checked out the iPad today, everything just clicked into place - this device is perfect for them!

First of all, its cheap compared to a mac laptop or desktop. Secondly, it is great for surfing and checking emails, which is what my parents do 99% of the time on the computer. Any laptop or desktop would be an overkill for their use case. Thirdly, the iPad's zooming functionality is the best in the market now, and would be extremely useful for older folks with bad eyesight. The small screens on netbooks just do not cut it.

I think apple has again come up with a device that will revolutionize the way we use computers, just not the way all of us tech minded geeks wanted it to.

Re: How A Great Product Can Be Bad News: Apple, iPad, and the Closed Mac

#165

Post by [deleted] »

jakez wrote: post #164
coffeemug wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My dad, mom, grandma, and grandpa can watch videos, look at photos of their kids/grandkids, send e-mails to their relatives oversees, and read their favorite books on it, all without the need for a "computer-savvy guy" who has to teach them how it works, and fix it when it's broken. In other words, it's a logical conclusion of the personal computer revolution. I understand you need to run your Ruby scripts, but this…

I've actually been meaning to get an iMac or Macbook for my parents to replace the old desktop at home. BUT when I checked out the iPad today, everything just clicked into place - this device is perfect for them! First of all, its cheap compared to a mac laptop or desktop. Secondly, it is great for surfing and checking emails, which is what my parents do 99% of the time on the computer. Any laptop or desktop would be…

[deleted]

Re: How A Great Product Can Be Bad News: Apple, iPad, and the Closed Mac

#166

Post by poppysan »

netcan wrote: post #102
mattmanser wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is alarmist nonsense. The App store and the iPhone have fostered a colossal amount of innovation, and made a lot of normal non-techy people very, very happy. And a bunch of techies too. And in the end I hope it doesn't come down to open source advocates getting their way so they can install vim, but it being about my Mum being able to use it without having to phone me saying that it's all gone wrong again and ca…

I get what you are saying & I agree. There are huge advantages in doing things this Apple way. Your Mum gets to have something that works for her first, the 4% of people that have a preference for Thunderbird over Mail (just an example) because they like the way that it handles their profiles (again, just an example), well they are not the no. 1 concern. That makes sense. A product for the majority. But, it is not ju…

Great point. imagine if the appstore had less stringent guidelines. There'd be a lot more iboobs, but also a lot more innovation.

Re: How A Great Product Can Be Bad News: Apple, iPad, and the Closed Mac

#167

Post by MrFoof »

jonknee wrote: post #162
MrFoof wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The iPad is barely more portable than a laptop, and much less functional. How many users actually use all the functionality? My sister bought a 15" MacBook Pro for Xmas. She checks work e-mail via Outlook Web Access, occasionally works with MS Office documents for the office, uses an IM client, YouTube, browses the web for vacation ideas/planning, iTunes, iPhoto and... that's it. Not a luddite. Quite savvy and brigh…

... And to use the iPad she still needs to have the laptop to sync it to.

Actually, you don't. You can sign up for 3G on the device. You can buy and manage content from the iTunes or App stores right from the device - just like the iPhone.

Re: How A Great Product Can Be Bad News: Apple, iPad, and the Closed Mac

#168

Post by gfodor »

Perceval wrote: post #83
GHFigs wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is monopoly In what market and by what definition?

Grandparent is probably thinking along the lines of a local monopoly, analogous to an old company town: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_town The analogy is not perfect, since you can buy mp3s and movies and ebooks from other services. But on iPhones and iPads the barriers to getting content from non-iTunes sources is certainly higher than it otherwise would be on a regular Mac (or any other PC for that matter).…

Here's an idea: someone can come along and build something half has good as the iPhone ecosystem. Who's stopping them?

Re: How A Great Product Can Be Bad News: Apple, iPad, and the Closed Mac

#169

Post by c23gooey »

i'd like to see one IRL - but i dont see the iPad being especially easy to use with regards to its size.

on an iPhone you can easily type with your thumbs, grip it firmly and you can use all sorts of multi-touch gestures.

i cant see that happening with a 10 inch tablet.

you would need to hold it / balance it on one hand and then awkwardly control it with your other hand. Doesnt seem ergonomic.

maybe one of the accesories they should release is an iArm, so we can hold it with two arms and confidently use gestures and such with your iArm

Re: How A Great Product Can Be Bad News: Apple, iPad, and the Closed Mac

#170

Post by jonknee »

MrFoof wrote: post #167
jonknee wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... And to use the iPad she still needs to have the laptop to sync it to.

Actually, you don't. You can sign up for 3G on the device. You can buy and manage content from the iTunes or App stores right from the device - just like the iPhone.

Until you need to get an OS update, put your existing content/apps on it, transfer your contacts, exchange documents, backup, etc. Just like an iPhone.
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