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Trails – Modern MVC Web Framework for Node.js

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Re: Trails – Modern MVC Web Framework for Node.js

#61

Post by dpacmittal »

_qbjt wrote: post #57
edwinnathaniel wrote: post #53

My new/current job is 100% JavaScript and I have been thinking to choose NodeJS and either React/EmberJS/AngularJS for my newbside project (a typical CRUD app) that I will have to maintain for a very long time. I almost chose Sails because Express is too low level/too simple. Lately I've been reconsidering my options ever since there were a few HN posts related to my choice of stack that seem to conflict with my requ…

As a full time JavaScript developer, I would never choose Node.js for the back end if I had the choice. Elixir or Ruby all the way.

Why?

Re: Trails – Modern MVC Web Framework for Node.js

#62

Post by dabernathy89 »

always_good wrote: post #40
manojlds wrote: post #5

Context - https://github.com/balderdashy/sails/issues/3429

Yikes. Gotta wonder if the "Meet the Team" page on http://www.balderdash.io/ is up to date after reading that.

It's not. Travis' Twitter/Github profiles don't seem to be up to date either.

https://twitter.com/mikermcneil/status/674307797832495104

Re: Trails – Modern MVC Web Framework for Node.js

#63

Post by im_down_w_otp »

smokeyj wrote: post #60
im_down_w_otp wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I dismiss it because it's like the 50th "modern MVC framework" to be made for Node.js? Are all the other ones so hopelessly broken that it required making an entirely new one?

Dismiss it, but you don't have to tell the entire world about your uninformed opinion. It's not as valuable as you suspect.

Opinion? Both sentences were questions. The first included a hyperbolic approximation (i.e. "50th") and the second included a legitimate direct question that infers an indirect question about the weird pace of churn and factionalization that seems to infect the Node.js community more than any other community.

If every other month a new thing was made, marketed, HN'd, and Twitter-culted that did basically the same thing as Nginx but had a slightly different config file format or shared-object handling mechanism or some other random detail I'd think that was also weird and somewhat superfluous.

It makes me wonder if building MVC frameworks has become so technically rote (time investment notwithstanding) that the simplicity of it has pushed them into Parkinson's Law of Triviality territory, such that everybody has their two-cents on how this weird metaprogramming trick is better than this other weird metaprogramming trick so now I can write my routes and handlers in this shape of quasi-DSL instead of that other quasi-DSL, and so then goes and makes a whole "new"... sorry... "modern" MVC framework.

How far away are we from realistically being able to replace the idiom, "bike-shedding" with, "MVC-frameworking"?

Re: Trails – Modern MVC Web Framework for Node.js

#64

Post by yejodido »

bnb wrote: post #50
roblabla wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I haven't played with Sails.JS, I've heard many people complain about how bad it was. However, just because the people building this new framework used to work on the Sails.JS Framework, you're going to dismiss it as being "automatically bad" ? I didn't look at Trails.JS so I don't know how it looks, but this kind of attitude seems extremely toxic and detrimental to the Open Source space. It makes me sad this i…

100% agree with you. I don't agree with the comment you replied to, but it's _not_ a good sign that they stole another project's logo. https://tent.io/

Hi bnb, it hurts to see the word "stole" and judgement passed so hastily, so I thought I'd take a quick second to reply.

It was only just this morning with the attention from Hacker News that we learned about the similarities between the two logos/brandmarks, and we're actively coming up with something new and different.

We'll keep the community posted on the status of the new designs here: https://github.com/trailsjs/trails/issues/47

Being open, compassionate, and transparent is a huge part of what we're hoping to do with Trails, so chatting with us directly is always an option.

We hope to see you on gitter!

All best :)

Re: Trails – Modern MVC Web Framework for Node.js

#65

Post by clay_to_n »

kevinob11 wrote: post #41
romanovcode wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once you start shipping to production you care far less about "speed of development" and "prototyping things" and more about "does this actually work". Don't get me wrong, Sails might be very good for prototyping something, but I could recommend it only if your only goal was to prototype something.

Fair enough, though I do have some experience with shipping to production. I do have quite a few other issues with sails and waterline (ORM). Waterline provided lifecycle hooks, but limited their power and had poor documentation on extending them. Same for sails core itself, it had hooks for writing modules and extensions, but no one outside of the core team knew well how to use them. As for migrations I ended up doi…

Lack of documentation has probably been my biggest gripe with Sails. The documentation on their website was broken for almost a year ("but it's on github! Go find it there"). They had a Getting Started "Sailscasts" series that was helpful, and then they released the beginning of the V2 videos (using a SPA w/ Angular), but only got three videos in.

Re: Trails – Modern MVC Web Framework for Node.js

#66

Post by traviswebb »

Raed667 wrote: post #29
traviswebb wrote: post #7

All -- Keep in mind that Trails.js is pre-release. We're releasing 1.0-alpha on January 8, which isn't too far away. For more info on our development schedule, see our roadmap: https://github.com/trailsjs/trails/blob/master/ROADMAP.md We'll be giving some talks on Trails the week of Jan 11th; we'll be visiting local Javascript groups in Detroit, Miami, and Los Angeles that week. If you're in the area, come hang out!

Maybe something to consider, a series of simple 101 tutorials for beginners. The same what Mike McNeil did some time ago on Plazi[0]. [0]: https://courses.platzi.com/courses/develop-apps-sails-js/

Yep, good idea. I've produced a number of Sails tutorials and videos as well :) We will be doing a similar series for Trails.

Re: Trails – Modern MVC Web Framework for Node.js

#68

Post by _qbjt »

dpacmittal wrote: post #61
_qbjt wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a full time JavaScript developer, I would never choose Node.js for the back end if I had the choice. Elixir or Ruby all the way.

Why?

For me, it's personal preference. Node.js is used and loved by many, but to me it's just an asynchronous event loop running on a single threaded process with a JavaScript API. I've written performant Node.js code and maybe for smaller web services it's great. But for a backend server, I worry about human error in large, evolving projects (especially when it comes time to scale).

Other issues faced by myself and colleagues more experienced than me include callback hell, race conditions, NPM errors and debugging code (in hindsight, something like node-inspector would have come in handy [1]).

Why Elixir? Well, for me OTP makes writing async code much easier. Message passing between GenServers or other processes is effortless. Fault-tolerance is built into the platform, as processes can be supervised and respawned when they die. It is based on Erlang, released 30 years ago and used by many large companies and projects [2]. Also, writing it makes me genuinely happy. :)

I would consider Ruby mostly because I've had my hands in Rails apps and can make my way around them. I've also been blown away by many brilliant people I've met and worked with in the Ruby community.

[1] https://github.com/node-inspector/node-inspector

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erlang_(programming_language)#...

Re: Trails – Modern MVC Web Framework for Node.js

#69

Post by traviswebb »

bnb wrote: post #50
roblabla wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I haven't played with Sails.JS, I've heard many people complain about how bad it was. However, just because the people building this new framework used to work on the Sails.JS Framework, you're going to dismiss it as being "automatically bad" ? I didn't look at Trails.JS so I don't know how it looks, but this kind of attitude seems extremely toxic and detrimental to the Open Source space. It makes me sad this i…

100% agree with you. I don't agree with the comment you replied to, but it's _not_ a good sign that they stole another project's logo. https://tent.io/

We've been in contact with the owner of tent, and are responding appropriately. Our logo unfortunately does bear a strong resemblance to theirs, which our designers are working to resolve.

I'd hitherto not heard of tent nor seen their logo, and neither had anyone else on our team. Saying that we "stole" it is fine for sloppy internet-talk, but it imbues your statement with a level of accusatory malice that we should try to avoid.

Re: Trails – Modern MVC Web Framework for Node.js

#70

Post by traviswebb »

nodenodenode wrote: post #48
jon-wood wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Keep in mind that Trails is not a fork, but a Sails-compatible re-write. So there's no upstream code-level reconciliation that can happen, but I'm sure both projects can coexist and compete in the framework market on their merits. The same could have been said of Rails and Merb back in the day, but they eventually combined efforts, and rolled the concepts that people liked from Merb back into Rails. It wasn't a cas…

The key difference being that the Rails and Merb teams were full of great engineers, and that Merb was mostly meant to solve some specific Rails pain points. Native english speakers on the Merb team also probably could avoid using "actually" three times in two sentences. The Trails project seems like a lot of flash and "saying the right things" with personal enmity. for now there's no reason to expect it to be a bett…

> for now there's no reason to expect it to be a better project than SailsJS in any way

"nodenodenode" account created 12 hours ago just to write this comment. I wonder who this is...

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