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What nobody told me about small farming: I can’t make a living

salon.com

61–70 of 102 posts

Re: What nobody told me about small farming: I can’t make a living

#61
If these people are looking to make money, then they need to either lower their expenses or up their prices.

On the former side, there are very well documented examples of commercial success from organic farming using naturally focused practices instead of the fertilizer and weeding processes common to traditional western-style farms. A good point to start reading there is the Japanese microbiologist that popularized the approach - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masanobu_Fukuoka

On the output side, direct supply deals with restaurants or consumers in higher income areas (ie. possibly not local, but a large city nearby ... SF comes to mind) could be an excellent way to get higher return on individual crops by volume. Yes, this would necessitate a drive. But they probably do it now and then anyway, and it might just pay for itself. As a bonus, the article mentioned that the author's husband was a woodworker: knocking together some rustic wooden crates for deliveries to look the part is not something difficult at scale.

As a bonus, these type of delivery deals can be worded "by the crate" and "in-season", allowing more reliable distribution of crops and releasing pressure to grow things on the edge of or out of their natural season, which can necessitate higher investment, time inputs and risk on a per-crop basis.

I firmly believe that being relatively close to SF, it must be possible to distribute organic crops and make money. The author simply hasn't figured out a working model yet.

Re: What nobody told me about small farming: I can’t make a living

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should sugar be taxed? Why not just eliminate sin taxes altogether? You people that want to tax everything that you feel isn't "good" is just obnoxious. There's something called freedom. Ridiculous nanny state proponents that want to use taxes to discourage behaviors that they consider 'bad' yet like to consider themselves 'pro choice' or interested in 'diversity.' --except when they disagree with those choices.…

> Everything should either be taxed equally or by at all. So cigarettes and alcohol should be taxed equally with baby formula ?

Well, to be fair, having kids does have a negative impact on the environment, and some studies indicate that having children makes people unhappy, so maybe it should be discouraged via taxation.

(I'm joking. I think.)

Re: What nobody told me about small farming: I can’t make a living

#63

Duh. Do these people just forget about the principle of economies of scale? How do they think they can possibly compete against huge factory farms? I can understand if you're doing a small farm 'for fun', but don't understand how an otherwise intelligent person can think they can (or should be able to) make good money from it. > As the average age of the American farmer neared 65, I knew young farmers were badly need…

The author of the article is your typical naïve liberal. They seriously chose to effectively be a sharecropper in Northern California? Had they actually spent any time on real working farms before they decided to jump in? The irony is that these types of people look down upon the 'rednecks' of flyover country and have the audacity to think that ten measly acres is going to support two people in Northern California. They have this dream of 'organic' agriculture while implicitly criticizing non organic farming. These people don't really know the first thing about farming -- obviously. If they did, they would have had at least the common sense to do the math.

For the two to make a small (by Northern CA standards,) salary of $80k per year that would mean they'd have to get a profit of $8000 per acre.

Carrots yield about 19,000 pounds per acre grown conventionally. Organic yields are less but the higher prices roughly offset the differential. NorCal wholesaler prices are at most .32 per pound for carrots sold in 50 pound boxes. (San Fran wholesale market price as of Dec 31.)

That's about $6000 yearly income (using carrots as a representative crop) per acre. That's $60k gross. That's assuming maximal efficiency which, given the obvious inexperience of these 'farmers,' would be irrationally optimistic to expect.

So now you're looking at a maximum of $60k gross for two people on ten acres. Even assuming they had zero overhead, that's $30k per year per person. They aren't picking ten acres of crops by themselves. They have to pay some help. They also don't plow the fields with shovels, so they have to have equipment, fuel, etc. So their profit is pretty much poverty wage. They don't apparently understand that 1 tractor can plow 100 acres and that same tractor could plow 10 acres. Economies of scale! That isn't some Monsanto conspiracy, it's just a fact of business. One they choose to ignore.

Are these people just stupid? Unless your ten acres are in Napa and you're growing grapes, you aren't making a living from renting 10 acres and growing beets.

The implicitly argument is that something ought to be done about this unfairness of how economics don't treat the 10 acre farmer very well. However, as a consumer, that isn't my problem. I don't care if a carrot has a parchment birth certificate and a pedigree or if it's just a carrot grown on a super farm somewhere. I don't have a responsibility to subsidize vanity farmers. I didn't make them rent land and try to grow stuff. They obviously don't think through the economics before they pulled the trigger -- I'm not feeling sorry for them at all. The interesting thing is that they blame the factory farms and the 'lack of a living wage' for their failure. While these same exact people are unopposed to illegal immigration which is the primary source of labor for these farms they abhor!

Am I assuming their politics? Yes, obviously.. But anyone who read the article knows these are the kind of people that would vote for anyone but the most liberal candidates on the ballot; the same liberals that want to increase the very immigration that results in the inexpensive labor that ultimately is putting them out of business.

Re: What nobody told me about small farming: I can’t make a living

#64
In addition to not doing their research, this is a great example of how destructive the west coast "fake it 'til you make it" attitude can be. Not only are they missing out on numerous opportunities by not being more honest with their neighbors (local farmers giving advice, neighbors patronizing them more if they know they aren't doing well and really do need their business, someone who knows a guy who runs a restaurant getting them a supplier deal, etc), I'm sure the stress and senseless alienation they suffer from "living a lie" isn't healthy either.

Re: What nobody told me about small farming: I can’t make a living

#65
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that small-scale farming can regain its position of a significant contributor to the food production. And even if it could, I'm not sure that it should. Food production scales up nicely, and it has many other potential benefits than just being cheaper. Say we fixed incentives that promote low-quality food (we have to do it either way, since small farmers are as much incentivized to sell crap as big ones…

Why do you assume a random DuPont agriculturalist, who pushes papers all day, understands food better than a professional farmer our their in the empirical field?

Back in the real world, BigCo agriculturalists also go out into the literal field. I used to work for a company that did agricultural telemetry, and our clients were big and small, and our BigCo contacts were frequently contacting us from somewhere other than an airconditioned office.

Re: What nobody told me about small farming: I can’t make a living

#66

Duh. Do these people just forget about the principle of economies of scale? How do they think they can possibly compete against huge factory farms? I can understand if you're doing a small farm 'for fun', but don't understand how an otherwise intelligent person can think they can (or should be able to) make good money from it. > As the average age of the American farmer neared 65, I knew young farmers were badly need…

They forgot economy of scale, but they also forgot to buy US subsidized crop insurance [1] to get a piece of the $14bn government handouts paid in a single year to big agriculture. Their biggest mistake was trying to earn money honestly without sucking the teat of the corporate-welfare bandwagon. [1] http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-09-09/farmers-bo...

I worked on a crop insurance app for a while. Big insurance co's greatest frustration is that farmers could basically just sign up and be guaranteed not to take a loss due to anything except their own purposeful damage (even market price below a certain value). And it would cost them nothing. Only the smart farmers did. The rest were fearful they were going to get swindled.

The smart ones used it like a hedge fund where they guaranteed a profit and were mainly betting profit rates on how much supply there was going to be.

Insurance company was providing it at a very low cost as the govt sets the service charge over the coverage level. Insurance companies have to compete on how cheap they can make the offering to actually provide (good cheap IT, good cheap claims). Big insurance co I worked with did it just as part of their portfolio to make it easier to sell insurance on equipment and life insurance.

Really odd setup but made sense as an alternate way to do farm subsidies if you thought about it. But farm subsidies pay you not to grow, this pays you to grow and guarantees a certain income if you control your other costs (maintenance, overhead, etc).

Re: What nobody told me about small farming: I can’t make a living

#67

Duh. Do these people just forget about the principle of economies of scale? How do they think they can possibly compete against huge factory farms? I can understand if you're doing a small farm 'for fun', but don't understand how an otherwise intelligent person can think they can (or should be able to) make good money from it. > As the average age of the American farmer neared 65, I knew young farmers were badly need…

> How do they think they can possibly compete against huge factory farms? As with so many of these things, there's this idea floating around that the factory farms must be "bad" because they are big and wealthy, and that smaller, less efficient farms must be "good" because they are small and poor. Much like with all the other cases, this idea is somewhere between confused and blatant denial of reality. Money is the u…

> The fact that people aren't willing to pay for it tells us that they don't actually care as much as they claimed.

Or that they don't know. Supermarkets don't usually label their vegetables "BigCo" and "littleco". The problem with the 'market solves everything' approach is that it requires perfect knowledge on behalf of all parties.

Re: What nobody told me about small farming: I can’t make a living

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean by selling the land? The last few years until this year there was boom in farmland prices.

No still owns it. Rents it out now. But the ups and downs of income from farming made him work two jobs. Some years the crops brought in good money. Some years nothing. He managed to saved enough so he can retire. But he told me he thinks 200 acres is the bare minimum to see some money if you are smart about it. The more acres the better obviously. And the farmer in the article only has 10???

On the other hand, farmers will always find a way to complain. I was reading a farming rag from a nearby town, and the canola crop was a bumper one, the best year ever. Response from the farmers? "Yeah, well with so much canola on the market, the unit price will be down"

Don't get me wrong, farming is hard work, but the farmers I've encountered rarely have much positive to say about their work particulars. A bit like sysadmins, really.

Re: What nobody told me about small farming: I can’t make a living

#69

I just got bitten by not having an ad blocker installed on the current browser. You know what this [0] looks like? That nice "You may also like" box? Like a fucking end of the article . Except it isn't. It's only a half of it. Seriously, fuck you Salon. I guess you don't care if people actually read the stuff you post. EDIT Oh, I know why it tricked me. Because the rest of the article only loads when you scroll past…

WTF. I wondered why the article ended so suddenly...

Re: What nobody told me about small farming: I can’t make a living

#70
post #25

10 acres is microscopic. The average small family farm is over 220 acres.

Further into the article:

According to USDA data from 2012, intermediate-size farms like mine, which gross more than $10,000 but less than $250,000, obtain only 10 percent of their household income from the farm, and 90 percent from an off-farm source.

The words "like mine" here are misleading, because this farm is nothing at all like the farms the author is referring to. For one thing, virtually all the farms the author is comparing itself to are an order of magnitude bigger. But then:

One day late into my second season owning the farm, a customer walked in while I stood behind the counter spraying down bins of muddy carrots. The man asked how things were going. Financially, I mean. He held a head of lettuce in the crook of his arm, a bundle of pink radishes dangled from his hand.

Most small family farms are not walk-up retail operations; they work through distributors and co-ops.

Modern farming is also intensely technical. There was a time in American history where you could make a living as a wheelwright, too. It's not an outrage that you need to be a major corporation to build vehicles today.

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