What nobody told me about small farming: I can’t make a living • Hacker News Board

Re: What nobody told me about small farming: I can’t make a living

#41

Post by mysterypie » Sat, Jan 02, 2016, 12:01 AM UTC

The typical family farmer in the U.S. is a millionaire because of assets. They have poor earnings and they whine a lot, but they are sitting on top of land, tractors, and buildings worth millions.

The average U.S. farmer could cash out, buy a house in Miami, and never work a day again in their lives. But they don't do so. They apparently like the country lifestyle and continue their struggle even though they don't have to.

Obviously the couple in the Salon article can't cash out and retire because they don't own their own land, and it's just a sliver of land at that.

Re: What nobody told me about small farming: I can’t make a living

#42

Post by SwellJoe » Sat, Jan 02, 2016, 12:01 AM UTC

unabridged wrote: post #31

SwellJoe wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect that is temporary. The bureaucracy is already very large in the pot industry, and will grow with time...the big players will guarantee regulators stack the deck in their favor. As legalization spreads across the country, growing will be concentrated in a few areas where it grows most easily and with the cheapest labor and most favorable legal climate (just as tobacco is concentrated in a few places). The bi…

I think the marijuana industry will more resemble the wine industry. Large bulk producers will cover the cheap end of the market but there will still be many highly respected small players.

That's a reasonable theory. Marijuana is not (currently) physically addicting, though I wouldn't put it past the tobacco companies to figure out ways to make it physically addicting and brand specific in its addictive properties...I'd even bet they're working on it. So, in that regard is may be similar to wine, which though it does contain an addictive substance, most addicts are not wine drinkers as it is a very expensive source of alcohol.

I still tend to think it will shake out similarly to tobacco, moreso than wine, but it's an interesting thought experiment to consider which substance it more resembles and how it will end up being regulated, taxed, and corporatized, in the long term as legalization spreads.

Re: What nobody told me about small farming: I can’t make a living

#43

Post by detaro » Sat, Jan 02, 2016, 12:01 AM UTC

asuffield wrote: post #30

TulliusCicero wrote: post #4

Duh. Do these people just forget about the principle of economies of scale? How do they think they can possibly compete against huge factory farms? I can understand if you're doing a small farm 'for fun', but don't understand how an otherwise intelligent person can think they can (or should be able to) make good money from it. > As the average age of the American farmer neared 65, I knew young farmers were badly need…

> How do they think they can possibly compete against huge factory farms? As with so many of these things, there's this idea floating around that the factory farms must be "bad" because they are big and wealthy, and that smaller, less efficient farms must be "good" because they are small and poor. Much like with all the other cases, this idea is somewhere between confused and blatant denial of reality. Money is the u…

>If people really cared about their food coming from small, inefficient, "organic" farms then they would pay for what it really costs to produce food in that manner. The fact that people aren't willing to pay for it tells us that they don't actually care as much as they claimed. This is normal: most people will tell you they care deeply about something up until the point when you ask them to open their wallet, and then they remember that they don't care all that much.

That's something I felt was missing from the article: No talk about their pricing. People pay (or not pay) the price they are asked to pay, not the price the thing costs to make (and have no idea how high that is).

Probably doesn't compare to the typical software-freelancer stories of "You should try to charge more than you think, clients pay that!", but it still would be interesting.

Re: What nobody told me about small farming: I can’t make a living

#44

Post by TeMPOraL » Sat, Jan 02, 2016, 12:06 AM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #12

tcskeptic wrote: post #9

Has the American small farmer ever been able to make a living?

Small time farmers in NL have cash crops growing in their attics. It is quite amazing how many people will consider doing something illegal if it makes enough money. Even people you'd never expect it of suddenly become experts in photosynthesis and hydroponics. Who'd have known that so many people discovered that they had green fingers after all when they can't distinguish a weed from a crop plant under other conditi…

I suppose they're also about to become experts in thermal insulation and waste heat management, given that some people got busted when their roofs suddenly become the only ones in the neighborhood that didn't accumulate snow in winter.

Re: What nobody told me about small farming: I can’t make a living

#45

Post by biggestbob » Sat, Jan 02, 2016, 12:07 AM UTC

Is this the USA problem or do small farmer have same problem in other country too? If all world has same problem it is very sad.

Re: What nobody told me about small farming: I can’t make a living

#46

Post by angelo » Sat, Jan 02, 2016, 12:11 AM UTC

tejohnso wrote: post #32

Six thousand pounds of food on a tenth of an acre bringing in $20,000/yr. How's that for scaling down? http://urbanhomestead.org/urban-homestead

How have you heard of the Dervaes? Are you local to the area?

Re: What nobody told me about small farming: I can’t make a living

#47

Post by briandear » Sat, Jan 02, 2016, 12:13 AM UTC

cmurf wrote: post #38

CountSessine wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

through subsidies, tax breaks, regulation, etc I'm genuinely curious whether this is actually the case. Can you cite some examples? My google-skills don't seem to be adequate.

google: 'sugar subsidies''corn subsidies''milk subsidies' In particular, sugar should be taxed like tobacco, with a sin tax, rather than subsidized. But that's not what we do.

Why should sugar be taxed? Why not just eliminate sin taxes altogether? You people that want to tax everything that you feel isn't "good" is just obnoxious. There's something called freedom. Ridiculous nanny state proponents that want to use taxes to discourage behaviors that they consider 'bad' yet like to consider themselves 'pro choice' or interested in 'diversity.' --except when they disagree with those choices.

Everything should either be taxed equally or by at all. The American system is about protecting people's rights and protecting freedom. The Founders never had any intent to become the parents of the American people. I sure as heck don't appreciate Washington, DC telling me how I should live my life, including dictating a diet using taxation as a tool. It's nobody's business what I eat.

Re: What nobody told me about small farming: I can’t make a living

#48

Post by digler999 » Sat, Jan 02, 2016, 12:14 AM UTC

TulliusCicero wrote: post #4

Duh. Do these people just forget about the principle of economies of scale? How do they think they can possibly compete against huge factory farms? I can understand if you're doing a small farm 'for fun', but don't understand how an otherwise intelligent person can think they can (or should be able to) make good money from it. > As the average age of the American farmer neared 65, I knew young farmers were badly need…

They forgot economy of scale, but they also forgot to buy US subsidized crop insurance [1] to get a piece of the $14bn government handouts paid in a single year to big agriculture.

Their biggest mistake was trying to earn money honestly without sucking the teat of the corporate-welfare bandwagon.

[1] http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-09-09/farmers-bo...

Re: What nobody told me about small farming: I can’t make a living

#49

Post by vermontdevil » Sat, Jan 02, 2016, 12:21 AM UTC

peter303 wrote: post #10

vermontdevil wrote: post #6

10 acres is not enough. A friend of mine owns 200 acres in Iowa and he has to work off-season to ensure a steady income. But the 200 generated enough $ for him to retire. Wasn't easy though.

Do you mean by selling the land? The last few years until this year there was boom in farmland prices.

No still owns it. Rents it out now. But the ups and downs of income from farming made him work two jobs. Some years the crops brought in good money. Some years nothing. He managed to saved enough so he can retire.

But he told me he thinks 200 acres is the bare minimum to see some money if you are smart about it. The more acres the better obviously. And the farmer in the article only has 10???

Re: What nobody told me about small farming: I can’t make a living

#50

Post by digler999 » Sat, Jan 02, 2016, 12:23 AM UTC

CountSessine wrote: post #22

SwellJoe wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the danger in our agricultural policy is that large farms are favored (through subsidies, tax breaks, regulation, etc.) to an extent that small farms can't exist profitably, even charging higher prices at market. While there is a minimum viable farm size (given the need for modern machinery to automate the process), most likely, it probably isn't nearly as large as what our current set of incentives enforces.…

through subsidies, tax breaks, regulation, etc I'm genuinely curious whether this is actually the case. Can you cite some examples? My google-skills don't seem to be adequate.

abuse of crop insurance: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-09-09/farmers-bo...