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Do the math on your stock options

jvns.ca

141–150 of 259 posts

Re: Do the math on your stock options

#141
Math is good. Philosophy is better.

Your salary is what you live on. Everything else is a bonus. As a salaried engineer I have received basically every 'extra' there is. Cash bonus. Equity bonus. Options. Restricted Stock Units. Overtime pay by the hour (seriously!)

In all cases I do not plan to get that money. I don't use it to pay rent or a mortgage. I don't use it to buy clothes or food. You might argue that is a luxury, but honestly if you can't afford your lifestyle without the bonus, then what happens when there are bad times and you don't get the bonus?

I set this up so explicitly that I have a separate bank account for that money and when a bonus comes in it gets transferred away from the day to day account. This years vacation is paid for with last years bonus.

Re: Do the math on your stock options

#142
Options are for suckers.

Do you want to be an investor? No? then why would you pay for stock out of your own money?

At our startup everyone gets the same stock, not options, through our Equity Incentive Plan. Here's how it works.

1. We lend new employees the amount of money it would take to buy common stock on a non-recourse promissory note the collateral in this case is the stock itself.

2. The employee then buys the shares from the company with the loan.

3. The employee then files an 83b election so that when it comes time to cash out, they only pay taxes at the strike price of when the shares were bought.

4. At a liquidity event, the promissory note goes away and they own the shares outright

5. They only pay taxes when they sell their shares not when they buy them

Now there are other provisions like if they want to sell prior to a liquidity event, we get rights to buy them back first if we choose to - in which case we just write off whatever the unvested portion from the note and take those shares back.

In the end it gives the employee actual rights to the same class of stock as the founders, so we can't fudge our employees out of stock benefits without hurting our own shares. This also prevents them for having to lay out any money until there is an actual no kidding liquidity event, so they take no risk of paying taxes on something which might be worthless. Even then they will only ever have to pay taxes on the shares, the promissory note goes away, so in effect looks like a equity grant at the time of sale.

Re: Do the math on your stock options

#143

Options are for suckers. Do you want to be an investor? No? then why would you pay for stock out of your own money? At our startup everyone gets the same stock, not options, through our Equity Incentive Plan. Here's how it works. 1. We lend new employees the amount of money it would take to buy common stock on a non-recourse promissory note the collateral in this case is the stock itself. 2. The employee then buys th…

[deleted]

Re: Do the math on your stock options

#144

I am considering an offer from an early stage startup. Salary is being dragged down ~40% under market due to stock options. The role is being a 'first key engineer' hire after the three co-founders. What kind of common-stock equity offer is 'average' in this case? 1%? 2%? 5%?

In my experience it's never a good idea to take a pay cut in lue of equity. Taking a pay cut because you like the product, the role, etc. are infinity better reasons than equity. In my opinion a 40% pay cut and being one of the first 5 engineers warrants co-founder status.

Co-founder? You could call me "Company Wizard and Lord of Space and Time" and I still wouldn't take a 40% pay cut. That's outrageous.

Re: Do the math on your stock options

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you knew the number of shares outstanding at the time of the option grant, it would still be useless. The company can issue new shares at any time leading to dilution. Also at some future liquidity event (acquisition, IPO), a significant number of new shares can be issued leading to more dilution. So yes, options are somewhat of a lottery ticket with ever changing odds. If the company does extraordinarily wel…

They can issue new shares but they would have to notify you. You should have a clause in your agreement that any new grant you have the ability to get more options to stay at leat less dilluted or you can walk.

What does "walk" mean in this context? My (naive) reading is that you can cut all ties and run because they've essentially broken a contract; that's trivially true, but doesn't help with the actual goal of getting money from those options.

Re: Do the math on your stock options

#148
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience it's never a good idea to take a pay cut in lue of equity. Taking a pay cut because you like the product, the role, etc. are infinity better reasons than equity. In my opinion a 40% pay cut and being one of the first 5 engineers warrants co-founder status.

It does not warrant cofounder status at all. So much more goes into being a cofounder than simply being one of the first x employees.

Then find yourself another key engineer. :) Or perhaps you do not know what "key" means?

It is rude to lie to people about the value of their options to hire them. ("Your options are 0.866% of the company"). But to try to defend that practice in public is just hilarious.

Heh, at least now we know what it does take to be a cofounder :)

Re: Do the math on your stock options

#149

Even when the maths is simple, few people seem to do the maths. The number of reasonably bright friends I have who say "I've got some equity, so if it goes big I'll make great money", but haven't actually sat down and calculated that "great money" is a one-off £50k astounds me.

The more common problem I see is the reverse: people do the math for the optimal scenario, see big numbers, and then assume that's how much the options are worth.

I agree. Stock options are a well-engineered exploit of employee optimism.

Re: Do the math on your stock options

#150
post #2

I'm really interested in other people's experiences with understanding how their stock options work. It seems really easy to misunderstand something serious, even if you know quite a lot about equity.

I've had ISOs in a couple of startup employers, non-qualified options in a startup customer, and RSUs in a couple of public employers.

The only book I've read on stock options is _Consider Your Options_ by Kaye Thomas, which I thought was good. I do my own taxes, and there was enough detail in that book to let me figure out the tax implications of my options. (Including AMT the one time I had to pay it.)

The actual mechanics when you already have options are straightforward. You either exercise speculatively (pay real cash to turn options into shares, then hold the shares), or exercise risklessly (pay cash to turn options into shares which you sell immediately for more cash than it cost to exercise). Exercising speculatively has risks -- you pay real money for shares that then go down in value, possibly to less than the strike price, possibly leaving you with a tax bill even though you made a loss. Exercising risklessly is safe.

I don't like to speculate with meaningful amounts of money. If in doubt, sell the stock and diversify. Think of the worst case (the company crashes and you lose both your job and the value you thought the stock had). Better to not have all your eggs in one basket and sleep well. I suspect this is not a popular sentiment there, though.

The real question with options is when you're considering multiple job offers. Company A offers $100k and 3000 options. Company B offers $110k and 5000 options. How do you value the options? For a startup, the usual answer is that you can't, because there's no anti-dilution protection. If the founders want to hose you, they can hose you, by diluting your shares or by firing you right before a vesting date. So I value them at zero and take the job I like better, or the job that pays more actual cash.

(RSUs in a healthy public company are a bit different, since they have an actual immediate cash value. I value them at 75% of the current value of the stock. The 25% discount is because of vesting periods.)

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