Can someone tell me why it is technically challenging to run Linux on PS4 when PS4 already runs Orbis OS which is a fork from FreeBSD?
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Fai0verflow: Linux on the PS4 [video]
81–90 of 90 posts
Re: Fai0verflow: Linux on the PS4 [video]
#82Actually, I was expecting more technical stuff relating to how they jailbreak the system. PoC is also good though.
(from the video) It looked like they found an exploit via whatever app renders the userguide.html Curious if they used a proxy to instead load a "malicious" page resulting in a buffer-overflow.
Oh, same attack vector as for hacking Nintendo 3DS.
Re: Fai0verflow: Linux on the PS4 [video]
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you can get acceptable speeds, why not?
More overhead, CPU, data encapsulation, etc...
USB storage is pretty straightforward today
Besides, for a "single application use", speed is not the biggest consideration. USB2 is several times faster than spinning rust
Re: Fai0verflow: Linux on the PS4 [video]
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
The HDD is the only user-serviceable part in the PS4, perhaps USB was chosen over PCIe SATA to make theoretical DMA attacks on the system more difficult?
SATA doesn't give you direct access to the DMA engine, the host decides where the data from the drive goes. If anything USB is probably more exploitable.
Well, the SATA controller has DMA access with the host. Of course, you have to find some way to trick the controller into misbehaving, but it's possible.
Re: Fai0verflow: Linux on the PS4 [video]
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
More overhead, CPU, data encapsulation, etc...
USB storage is pretty straightforward today Besides, for a "single application use", speed is not the biggest consideration. USB2 is several times faster than spinning rust
It is, however, much slower than SATA II, which makes it a very poor choice when considering the volume of data games load off the disk when loading (this probably explains Bloodborne's lackluster loading times).
Re: Fai0verflow: Linux on the PS4 [video]
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
but I remember that being part of the reason why the 'Other OS' feature was removed from the PS3 - Places/People were buying them up and running Linux on them because they were such a good deal for the hardware. Wait, really? The PS3 was outclassed by generic PC hardware pretty quickly, and wasn't much faster than a netbook unless you were writing some seriously multithreaded or PS3 GPU-specific code. I never heard o…
Looking into it, it seems it was more specialized uses that people were using them for, not just generic hardware - I remembered that point wrong. The fact that they foot the bill for a lot of the hardware is still true though. Being able to easily copy and run games is an entirely fair point, but I felt it was separate from what I (And who I responded to) was getting at. An open-hardware machine running steam still…
It's not even that far in the past that these games were running on bare metal. The Nintendo Wii didn't have an OS running underneath the games, each piece of software had access to the entire range of memory and CPU unrestricted. I'm pretty sure the 3DS has a very minimal OS running underneath software.
Re: Fai0verflow: Linux on the PS4 [video]
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
Looking into it, it seems it was more specialized uses that people were using them for, not just generic hardware - I remembered that point wrong. The fact that they foot the bill for a lot of the hardware is still true though. Being able to easily copy and run games is an entirely fair point, but I felt it was separate from what I (And who I responded to) was getting at. An open-hardware machine running steam still…
It's not even that far in the past that these games were running on bare metal. The Nintendo Wii didn't have an OS running underneath the games, each piece of software had access to the entire range of memory and CPU unrestricted. I'm pretty sure the 3DS has a very minimal OS running underneath software.
Entirly true, it's kinda cool to see the evolution - Though it makes sense the games would run bare metal, since that would give the best bang-for-your-buck, and presumably it didn't matter at the time.
The 3DS actually has a somewhat complicated architecture - My understanding is that it has a dual-core CPU, but one core is dedicated to running the OS kernel, and the other is used for games. Thus, there is also a 'kernel-mode' 'user-mode' split in a way, because the core dedicated to running games doesn't have full access to everything, and doesn't have full access to mess with the other core. You can kinda see this in action when you note that the 3DS can only ever have one game running at a time, but certain home-screen applications can be run while a regular game is suspended - Due to the application running off of the OS kernel's core and not the game's core.
This also means that an exploit in a game doesn't automatically result in full-system control - A separate exploit in the kernel is necessary to gain full control over the system. This is completely different from the Wii's setup as you noted - I'm not sure if the Wii had the OS running while games did or not, but regardless since games ran with full privileges a single exploit in a game resulted in full-system control.
Re: Fai0verflow: Linux on the PS4 [video]
#88Hackers gonna hack. Every generation of these consoles is a new challenge to all the hackers out there. You've got to think that the engineers who designed these systems eventually get "engineering syndrome" from staring at these systems for years and eventually start to be blind about tiny problems. Corporations put millions and millions of dollars behind the design of these systems and a ragtag group of folks comes…
Something to keep in mind is that it's becoming a trend that companies sell the systems at a loss (Notably, I think the only company that doesn't is Nintendo). Especially for the beginning of it's life, this is only practical if it's a closed system - Because if it wasn't, then they're essentially just offering the hardware at a huge discount to people who have no intention of buying any games, and the games is where…
I would argue that the "loss leader" strategy has been part of the game for both Sony and MSFT since they have entered the video game console, forcing SEGA out of the hardware market.
Re: Fai0verflow: Linux on the PS4 [video]
#89Wait wait wait, HDD support through USB? Are you serious? Any hardware manufacturers care to explain why this might be the case?
The HDD is the only user-serviceable part in the PS4, perhaps USB was chosen over PCIe SATA to make theoretical DMA attacks on the system more difficult?
That would be funny, considering that the original PS3 Jailbreak exploited bugs in Sony's USB code.
Re: Fai0verflow: Linux on the PS4 [video]
#90Hackers gonna hack. Every generation of these consoles is a new challenge to all the hackers out there. You've got to think that the engineers who designed these systems eventually get "engineering syndrome" from staring at these systems for years and eventually start to be blind about tiny problems. Corporations put millions and millions of dollars behind the design of these systems and a ragtag group of folks comes…
> Why do developers choose a closed platform like PS4 vs the Steam Machine? Several reasons, in order of significance: * Console manufacturers will often subsidize your development for platform exclusivity, in order to attract users. * Large userbase. * Single hardware target. While consoles (intentionally) have no software portability, you are also targeting a single set of hardware so the QA is easier and the dev p…
First of all, the entire question is a strawman, why do developers choose a closed platform? Who said they "choose"? Because, the way I see it, management says "we're gonna do some nonsense decision, deal with it". Developers don't choose, otherwise, consoles would not exist by now.
"you are also targeting a single set of hardware so the QA is easier and the dev process requires less testing."
Are you serious? You mean to convince me every developer wants to take yet another hipster sdk, one for xbox one, one for ps4, one for xbox 360 and develop for each and every one because it is easiest? Instead of just developing for single linux desktop and reaching linux pc market + consoles and optionally cross compiling to windows from linux too? What kind of crack are you on mate?
Steam machine is better in every way than a gaybox and homostation, everything you get from a pc - free internet, cheap games, same online multiplayer for console or a pc, way beefier hardware than a console, even upgrade options, yet people say that steam machine is lacking something?