Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple's $348M Tax Settlement In Italy Bodes Ill For Google, Facebook, Microsoft

forbes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 181 posts

Re: Apple's $348M Tax Settlement In Italy Bodes Ill For Google, Facebook, Microsoft

#141

Post by IanCal »

funkyy wrote: post #129
funkyy wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or just introduce 1% revenue tax, get rid of all other taxes and tax credits?

I would like the person that downvoted this to speak up, after all HN is conversation driven community. Whenever I see someone mentioning revenue tax for corporations I see those posts being downvoted a lot and I never see anyone ever explaining why.

I didn't downvote, but you seem to have put basically no thought into this or have at least not shown any in your comment. Why 1%? How would that work? What are the downsides, etc? Why is VAT in the EU not the right way?

Re: Apple's $348M Tax Settlement In Italy Bodes Ill For Google, Facebook, Microsoft

#142

Post by Marazan »

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #96
bryanlarsen wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two distinct outrages here: - Apple avoiding paying taxes on foreign income to the USA - Apple avoiding paying European taxes to anybody Your argument holds weight on the former. However, it obfuscates the second, where Apple pays taxes on its European income at a rate of 0% to Ireland. That's a true outrage.

On the latter, isn't that how the EU is supposed to work? I can base my company in an EU country of my choice and not have to pay income taxes for sales in the other EU countries? Similar to basing a company in a US state without corporate income tax, and not owing income tax on sales made in other states. Though the difference is that Federal taxes in the US are much larger than state taxes, while there isn't a broa…

No, the point is not that European sales are taxed in Ireland, it is that they are not taxed at all.This is special treatment Apple got by cutting a deal with the Irish authorities

Re: Apple's $348M Tax Settlement In Italy Bodes Ill For Google, Facebook, Microsoft

#143

Post by junto »

benzoate wrote: post #56
junto wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Goods and services. In terms of their core business, the money they charge British companies to advertise on the Google network should be taxed and paid to the UK government. I don't understand the problem?

Because corporation tax is a tax on profit. Profit is roughly revenue - expenses. How do you ever reliably calculate Google's expenses for the UK? It's basically always going to be a pseudo made up number between total world wide expenses and 0, and shockingly they declare the highest number they think they can get away with.

You've missed my point. There is no point in levying a profit based corporation tax. I'm suggesting a straight internet sales tax, similar to VAT, rated to raise a revenue comparable to what the country is missing or on in terms of corporation tax.

Re: Apple's $348M Tax Settlement In Italy Bodes Ill For Google, Facebook, Microsoft

#144

Post by junto »

ksec wrote: post #104
junto wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, I'll add another 'no' to you both. If a company is operating in a certain country offering goods and services to the population of that country then that country has the right to levy taxes upon the sales of those goods, and upon the operating profits of that company operating within that country. Global corporations fiddle this by moving money around so it appears that they don't make a corporate profit in that…

But you need to take into account how much some countries are charging for cooperate tax. A stupid insanely huge amount! You have sales tax, then this company invest into the country and hire people, paying rental for stores, advertising and spending. Once you take away all that, the country has to take 35% of your profits? The case for Apple isn't as convincing as they are the most profitable company in the world. W…

The point is to level the playing field and de-power the global corporation. They have now become more powerful than countries and I see that as a problem. It means that they can overpower democracy, which we are seeing more and more through the corruption of our politics.

Re: Apple's $348M Tax Settlement In Italy Bodes Ill For Google, Facebook, Microsoft

#145

Post by tn13 »

ves wrote: post #83
tn13 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is nothing moral about paying taxes. What Apple has earned belongs to Apple and in ideal world it should pay nothing to US government. US government should probably think of simplifying and lowering the tax to the extent that avoiding it becomes more expensive than paying it.

Keep in mind that Apple does owe the US government a significant amount, so your statement is inaccurate. Apple would not function without the infrastructure provided by the government, would not be able to protect its IP without US patents, relies on the US for its workforce in Cupertino, etc. So while I agree with your first claim, and do think Apple should "not" be taxed (tax people, not corporations), I don't agr…

I said in "ideal case" and not in general case and I was only emphasizing why the government attitude that Apple owes US government something is wrong.

As far as public infrastructure etc. is concerned only a minuscule portion of over taxes get spent on actual government functions such as protection of property rights and Liberty. Most of the money is currently going in wars we cant win or end, military junk and welfare. If I had a choice I would pay government to run a police force and courts but not for these things.

US gov already gets sufficient tax money to run its basic business. I would appreciate if the cut their spending instead of stealing money from me and Apple.

Re: Apple's $348M Tax Settlement In Italy Bodes Ill For Google, Facebook, Microsoft

#146

Post by tn13 »

jgalt212 wrote: post #60
tn13 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporations are trying to keep their own money. Hiring top notch lawyers is economical because they actually help them save more than what the lawyers get paid. I dont see how fault lies with the corporations.

I assume you do understand the problem that would result if everyone could pursue every possible loophole to the maximum extent like Apple, Google, Amazon, FB, et al do.

I don't understand your point. If there is a loophole I can exploit to pay 0 tax I would and recommend everyone else to do so.

Re: Apple's $348M Tax Settlement In Italy Bodes Ill For Google, Facebook, Microsoft

#147

Post by jgalt212 »

tn13 wrote: post #146
jgalt212 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume you do understand the problem that would result if everyone could pursue every possible loophole to the maximum extent like Apple, Google, Amazon, FB, et al do.

I don't understand your point. If there is a loophole I can exploit to pay 0 tax I would and recommend everyone else to do so.

My point is what would happen if everyone had the resources and moral turpitude to exploit every possible loophole.

Re: Apple's $348M Tax Settlement In Italy Bodes Ill For Google, Facebook, Microsoft

#148

Post by funkyy »

IanCal wrote: post #141
funkyy wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would like the person that downvoted this to speak up, after all HN is conversation driven community. Whenever I see someone mentioning revenue tax for corporations I see those posts being downvoted a lot and I never see anyone ever explaining why.

I didn't downvote, but you seem to have put basically no thought into this or have at least not shown any in your comment. Why 1%? How would that work? What are the downsides, etc? Why is VAT in the EU not the right way?

1% would mean there would be increase in revenue to the government. For example Adam Smith Foundation in Poland have calculated that introducing revenue tax of 1% would increase revenue to the country budget, remove black market and allow country to tax international corporations easily. Also savings from tax collection process would be huge and there would be no place to manipulate with tax credits. At the moment in Poland 0.44% of revenue gets to the budget through corporate taxes which is really low. Then additional benefit is that business owners will not need to worry about bad decisions by tax office. The institute found that around 60% of companies in Poland do not pay any kind of corporate tax at all meaning all of them - at least on paper - are loosing money. Google has not paid any tax in Poland in last years despite owning 80% of ad market. The research on the new tax was done by the brightest economist and they are hoping it will be introduced at least for foreign corporations.

The VAT is OK as long as it is fixed and low (10-12% without discounts etc.), the issue is with corporate taxes.

Source: http://wyborcza.biz/biznes/1,100896,15540136,Podatek_od_przy...

Re: Apple's $348M Tax Settlement In Italy Bodes Ill For Google, Facebook, Microsoft

#149

Post by Oletros »

kchoudhu wrote: post #59
Oletros wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fine was stupid when it was issued and it's ramifications were stupid when they forced Windows 7 N into existence. This is just opinion > If you view the fine as a tax it all makes far more sense It is not a tax, so it doesn't make sense > The fine is merely a tax that is the cost of doing business in Europe Wrong, the fine is a consequence of breaking competition laws > And Europe certainly has no issue demand…

> Wrong, the fine is a consequence of breaking competition laws I assure you, the cost of breaking the law is factored into a spreadsheet somewhere in all corporations of note, and that this metaphorical spreadsheet is always used to make decisions. The OP is absolutely correct when he says that fines are the cost of doing business. He's wrong when he says that this is a phenomenon associated with Europe though -- co…

> The OP is absolutely correct when he says that fines are the cost of doing business

Perhaps is correct is it is the cost of doing business BREAKING the law, but it is wrong when the OP says that it is the cost just for operating in a place without breaking any law

Re: Apple's $348M Tax Settlement In Italy Bodes Ill For Google, Facebook, Microsoft

#150

Post by xixi77 »

jgalt212 wrote: post #147
tn13 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand your point. If there is a loophole I can exploit to pay 0 tax I would and recommend everyone else to do so.

My point is what would happen if everyone had the resources and moral turpitude to exploit every possible loophole.

Perhaps the government would then have an incentive to simplify the tax system and eliminate the loophole?
Post reply on HN