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In Memoriam: Ian Murdock

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381–390 of 428 posts

Re: In Memoriam: Ian Murdock

#381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an impossible thing to do right, you let it it it might turn ugly, you take it down you get this. Dang made the right call here, I've been in that position several times with camarades/ww.com and it is extremely un-nerving. The problem is that since the authorities were the apparent main cause of the problem here there would likely not be much positive effect from alerting them (something I did do in the cases…

> you let it it it might turn ugly Or some friend/acquaintance sees it and pays the guy a visit. But dang's comfort is more important, isn't it?

What an absolutely ridiculous comment.

Yes, some friend/acquaintance could have paid him a visit. How big do you think the chances are that HN would be the channel that would alert a friend or acquaintance of Ian that would not already be aware of this through his twitter feed?

> But dang's comfort is more important, isn't it?

No, it obviously isn't but he made the right call in shutting down that thread and it looks to me as if you're trying to blame Dan for the death of Ian, which is utterly reprehensible. As I wrote above there is no way to do this right but with hindsight you too would have known what to do.

Fucking backseat drivers. I've been thinking really hard lately about why I feel that HN is no longer the nice place it used to be and it is comments like these that ram that home in a way that not much else ever could.

Re: In Memoriam: Ian Murdock

#382

Previous thread about Ian Murdock: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10803924 This news is, tragically, new information. :(

And this is exactly why I have such a deep distaste for typical forum "moderation" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10804163 Dang seemed to presume that everyone here would just "gawk" at Ian's issues. He assumed that Ian's cries for help would be responded to in bad faith. Had "Dang" simply left the post alone, it's very likely that some people here could have touched base with Ian and prevented this suicide fro…

> Had "Dang" simply left the post alone, it's very likely that some people here could have touched base with Ian and prevented this suicide from happening.

That is something you don't have a shred of evidence for and which indirectly lays blame for Ian's suicide with Dan and I really don't think you should be writing stuff like that here or elsewhere, it is in complete contradiction with the facts.

If you think that you have the right of way here then by extension HN should from now on be renamed suicide watch and each and every twitter post about someone who writes they want to commit suicide should get top billing and be sticky until the person is tied to a stretcher somewhere.

Try not to be a dick around here, it really does not help, for one it ruins the atmosphere and for another you are causing a thing that hurts to cause even more pain.

And if you can't keep the bile out of your comments then simply don't comment at all.

Re: In Memoriam: Ian Murdock

#383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you let it it it might turn ugly Or some friend/acquaintance sees it and pays the guy a visit. But dang's comfort is more important, isn't it?

What an absolutely ridiculous comment. Yes, some friend/acquaintance could have paid him a visit. How big do you think the chances are that HN would be the channel that would alert a friend or acquaintance of Ian that would not already be aware of this through his twitter feed? > But dang's comfort is more important, isn't it? No, it obviously isn't but he made the right call in shutting down that thread and it looks…

I think that startups becoming trendy made HN trendy, and trendy anything is bad. I've been here for a long time too (I ditch my accounts) and it really does seem there's been a gradual increase of nasty children and a corresponding departure of nice adults. Whenever I go away and come back it seems worse. The worsening also seems to be marked by big events like the Reddit fiasco, that women-in-tech stuff, Steve Jobs dying, Snowden, etc. I think when pg left that was it. I just want to have conversations with intelligent people but that doesn't seem to be the point anymore.

Re: In Memoriam: Ian Murdock

#384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What an absolutely ridiculous comment. Yes, some friend/acquaintance could have paid him a visit. How big do you think the chances are that HN would be the channel that would alert a friend or acquaintance of Ian that would not already be aware of this through his twitter feed? > But dang's comfort is more important, isn't it? No, it obviously isn't but he made the right call in shutting down that thread and it looks…

I think that startups becoming trendy made HN trendy, and trendy anything is bad. I've been here for a long time too (I ditch my accounts) and it really does seem there's been a gradual increase of nasty children and a corresponding departure of nice adults. Whenever I go away and come back it seems worse. The worsening also seems to be marked by big events like the Reddit fiasco, that women-in-tech stuff, Steve Jobs…

Subject of a long running thread with another HN'er. You probably are on to something with major events catalyzing the slide downward.

Re: In Memoriam: Ian Murdock

#385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's probably the single most ported distribution, from a variety of remixes for desktop, netbook and recovery uses alike to usually being the first target for every microcontroller and single-board.

Debian even had a BSD flavor for a while. https://www.debian.org/ports/kfreebsd-gnu/

And Nexenta is a debian based Illumos (formerly OpenSolaris) distribution.

Re: In Memoriam: Ian Murdock

#386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is exactly why I have such a deep distaste for typical forum "moderation" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10804163 Dang seemed to presume that everyone here would just "gawk" at Ian's issues. He assumed that Ian's cries for help would be responded to in bad faith. Had "Dang" simply left the post alone, it's very likely that some people here could have touched base with Ian and prevented this suicide fro…

> Had "Dang" simply left the post alone, it's very likely that some people here could have touched base with Ian and prevented this suicide from happening. That is something you don't have a shred of evidence for and which indirectly lays blame for Ian's suicide with Dan and I really don't think you should be writing stuff like that here or elsewhere, it is in complete contradiction with the facts. If you think that…

>it is in complete contradiction with the facts.

My statements are 100% aligned with the facts. Had the post stayed up people could have gotten in contact with Ian, he obviously knew dozens of people here. In fact, Ian specifically asked people to post to YC to bring attention to what he was going through. Then when someone did so, that post was removed, so the only attention Ian got instead was from twitter trolls who egged him on, rather than from the community he reached out to. If you don't see that as a failing you're being incredibly myopic.

>extension HN should from now on be renamed suicide watch and each and every twitter post about someone

Ad absurdum argument. Ian's posts weren't the attention seeking behavior of some high-school drama hound, this was clearly a legitimate meltdown by the founder of Debian, who was recently injured, someone who was a part of this community, not someone random as you suggest. That's why the post about his tweets was being upvoted -- people recognized there was a legitimate issue that needed attention. Then Dang intentionally removed the post, blinding everyone to what was happening simply because he didn't want people to "gawk." That's fairly reprehensible, in my opinion, and though I'm sure it wasn't intended that way, actions have consequences.

Re: In Memoriam: Ian Murdock

#388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Had "Dang" simply left the post alone, it's very likely that some people here could have touched base with Ian and prevented this suicide from happening. That is something you don't have a shred of evidence for and which indirectly lays blame for Ian's suicide with Dan and I really don't think you should be writing stuff like that here or elsewhere, it is in complete contradiction with the facts. If you think that…

>it is in complete contradiction with the facts. My statements are 100% aligned with the facts. Had the post stayed up people could have gotten in contact with Ian, he obviously knew dozens of people here. In fact, Ian specifically asked people to post to YC to bring attention to what he was going through. Then when someone did so, that post was removed, so the only attention Ian got instead was from twitter trolls w…

Ian was well capable of reaching out to his friends all by himself, he also was capable of using twitter (which he did) and his cell phone. HN is not the place to alert your friends if you have suicide on the brain, in fact it is probably the last thing you should count on since there is absolutely no guarantee it will be posted or that some friend of yours would see it in time.

I'm not myopic for seeing that Ian had many more ways of reaching out to others than asking people aready reading this twitter feed to post it to HN which could then possibly result in someone close to him reaching him in time to make a difference. That's patently absurd reasoning.

> Ad absurdum argument. Ian's posts weren't the attention seeking behavior of some high-school drama hound, this was clearly a legitimate meltdown by the founder of Debian, someone who was a part of this community, not someone random as you suggest.

Yes, but that does not make the community responsible, as much as you would apparently like.

> That's why the post about his tweets was being upvoted -- people recognized there was a legitimate issue that needed attention.

Well, an 'upvote' is not giving attention to an issue, it is just a way to express support. Attention to an issue is to figure out who is close enough to Ian to go and do something about it. And I notice that nobody did, not you nor anybody else for that matter. Given how connected the world is do you really believe that HN is now so important that in matters of life-or-death the right thing to do is to ask for a post on HN rather than to contact someone close? Do you actually believe that none of Ians twitter followers would be better placed to make the link? Do you know Ians HN handle?

> Then the Dang intentionally removed the post, blinding everyone to what was happening simply because they didn't want people to "gawk."

No, he didn't blind anybody. If you were a friend of Ians then you should not rely on HN to make the difference in situations like these. It is an absolutely horrible thing to attempt to make that link. Of course it nicely fits in with your inner narrative that someone needs to be blamed here and you've figured that should be Dan because he killed that thread. But having been in Dans shoes in the past makes me a bit more knowledgeable about how these things go and the fact of the matter is that in the past those threads stayed up and people still killed themselves, and some threads may have contributed to the person killing themselves (see the thread where Aaron Swartz asked for help). Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

> That's pretty reprehensible, in my opinion, and though I'm sure it wasn't intended that way, actions have consequences.

That action did not have the consequence you tie to it. If you read Ians words carefully he explicitly asked all his friends NOT TO STOP HIM. So how come you are so clever about this that you feel that it is right to blame a complete outsider just because a forum thread was deleted. Ians life or death did not hinge on that in a way linked strongly enough that you can make these outrageous claims.

Re: In Memoriam: Ian Murdock

#389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it is in complete contradiction with the facts. My statements are 100% aligned with the facts. Had the post stayed up people could have gotten in contact with Ian, he obviously knew dozens of people here. In fact, Ian specifically asked people to post to YC to bring attention to what he was going through. Then when someone did so, that post was removed, so the only attention Ian got instead was from twitter trolls w…

Ian was well capable of reaching out to his friends all by himself, he also was capable of using twitter (which he did) and his cell phone. HN is not the place to alert your friends if you have suicide on the brain, in fact it is probably the last thing you should count on since there is absolutely no guarantee it will be posted or that some friend of yours would see it in time. I'm not myopic for seeing that Ian had…

Obviously Ian was not thinking rationally, which is precisely why his tweets needed -- and would have received -- attention.

He was part of this community. He was in crisis and it was obvious. People would have wanted to help.

You don't talk someone down from a ledge by turning your back on them.

That's all I'll say on the matter.

Re: In Memoriam: Ian Murdock

#390
post #376

It really bothers me that traces of someone's existence can be wiped out with a mouse click, be it on twitter, google, facebook, or other sites. I read the tweets while this was going on, I was hoping he would find some other means to cope and raise awareness, and to hear that he actually went through with it. :-( I go to reread and see if there's anything I might have missed and his twitter page is gone as if he nev…

Cached by Google http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache%3Ahttps... Mirror http://pastebin.com/dX3VSPkM

Sans emphasized racist remark, that's pretty sad.
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