Earlier quoted context omitted.
People pay their taxes, generally. Corporations on the other hand... Well many pay their taxes as well, if I'm being fair.
But people try and minimise their taxes as much as possible. Taxes that corporations pay are more complicated and they have more legal avenues to minimise tax payable.
Apple's $348M Tax Settlement In Italy Bodes Ill For Google, Facebook, Microsoft
121–130 of 181 posts
Re: Apple's $348M Tax Settlement In Italy Bodes Ill For Google, Facebook, Microsoft
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
I get the spreadsheet. I get that there should not be two answers. What I'd ask you is where is your moral compass? Where do you think the taxes should be?
Taxes and morality have nothing to do with each other. Individuals and corporations have a legal duty to pay duly constituted taxes. Nothing more.
Re: Apple's $348M Tax Settlement In Italy Bodes Ill For Google, Facebook, Microsoft
#123It's great how we're living in a world where tax codes are so idiotic and complex that it takes long lawsuits to figure out what tax is actually due. It's not about following the letter of the law; it's about following the letter of the law, avoiding the court of public opinion, and coughing up whatever is necessary to stop the complaints when some politician wants to distract people from their incompetence and whip…
Re: Apple's $348M Tax Settlement In Italy Bodes Ill For Google, Facebook, Microsoft
#124It also took Italy to remind Apple to honour the EU's consumer rights: http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-04/03/apple-eu-warr... . Don't know what it is Italy's got going for it, but they're doing something right.
Re: Apple's $348M Tax Settlement In Italy Bodes Ill For Google, Facebook, Microsoft
#125Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The fine was stupid when it was issued and it's ramifications were stupid when they forced Windows 7 N into existence. This is just opinion > If you view the fine as a tax it all makes far more sense It is not a tax, so it doesn't make sense > The fine is merely a tax that is the cost of doing business in Europe Wrong, the fine is a consequence of breaking competition laws > And Europe certainly has no issue demand…
1) Windows 7 N is as objectively stupid as can be given that is an object with zero consumer interest created in the name of consumer protection. It's not a thing that anyone wants or wanted. It's a colossal waste of resources that provides zero value. 2/3) You're right. A fine isn't a tax. Now assume you are a nation state and some foreign entity is making a shit ton of money off your population. Now let's assume th…
Still waiting a proof that it is because an American company
> 5) Ask some lawyer friends for the opinion on Nintendo vs Galoob. They almost certainly discussed it in school. Opinions will vary. More than a few will likely agree that if Nintendo were an American company the outcome would have been different. That's the most famous case I know of.
Some USA case doesn't make any argument for your accusation about EU.
You can believe what you want, but reality is what it is
Re: Apple's $348M Tax Settlement In Italy Bodes Ill For Google, Facebook, Microsoft
#126It's great how we're living in a world where tax codes are so idiotic and complex that it takes long lawsuits to figure out what tax is actually due. It's not about following the letter of the law; it's about following the letter of the law, avoiding the court of public opinion, and coughing up whatever is necessary to stop the complaints when some politician wants to distract people from their incompetence and whip…
What Apple owes is clear to me: pay the standard U.S. corporate tax on the standard U.S. profits. Do the same for all countries. The Apple problem is that its lawyers are deliberately avoiding using current tax codes, and instead essentially claiming that Apple is based in Ireland, then playing shell games with what counts as U.S. sales, U.S. profits, and also U.S. property. Apple ends up paying ~10% U.S. tax, rather…
You mention Apple's Ireland operations, and you allude to the "earnings stripping" that is commonly achieved through such foreign companies. In some cases, the subsidiary is a pure tax play. But in other cases, it's simply a matter of having foreign operations that perform services that are charged out to affiliates in various countries. Deciding how much to mark up these services is a classic facts-and-circumstances inquiry. There's no one-size-fits-all rule that can adequately capture the spectrum of activities.
Compounding the problem is the fact that there are multiple taxing authorities involved, and if one gets greedy then others are affected (through foreign tax credits, for example). Sometimes a company just ends up getting stuck in the middle of a turf war between tax agencies in two countries.
Lastly, Tim Cook does have a "moral responsibility" with regard to taxation: maximize shareholder value. Granted, he could reasonably decide to take actions that do not minimize tax liability in the near term, on the grounds that he would generate goodwill with consumers and increase sales. But if he announced that he was going to dismantle Apple's foreign subsidiary structure so that Apple could pay more taxes, you can bet he'd face shareholder lawsuits in no time flat.
Re: Apple's $348M Tax Settlement In Italy Bodes Ill For Google, Facebook, Microsoft
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
To my understanding, this is money that is actually made outside the US. If Apple (US) sells an iPhone to an American customer, they will pay US corporate income tax on the profits from that sale. However, if Apple (Italy) sells an iPhone to an Italian customer, the 'double Irish' arrangement lets them avoid paying corporate income taxes on those profits. There are two issues here: 1. Some might argue that because Ap…
>If Apple (US) sells an iPhone to an American customer, they will pay US corporate income tax on the profits from that sale. Except they don't, really. They use the same "double Irish" scheme in the US. Apple has offshore holding companies that own the IP for that iPhone. When a US customer buys an iPhone, much of the actual profit gets shifted to the offshore subsidiaries as an expense. That's how they ended up with…
Wrong. They initiated a capital return program a few years ago and ran down their US cash holdings while taking on debt "against" part of their overseas holdings. Once you account for the debt issues, their net cash holdings are a lot lower (though still substantial). Please don't make wild accusations if you don't know what you are talking about.
Re: Apple's $348M Tax Settlement In Italy Bodes Ill For Google, Facebook, Microsoft
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Taxes and morality have nothing to do with each other Bullshit, the concept of fairness is a universal moral.
The concept of fairness is so subjective it's meaningless in the context of morality. Decrying something as being "unfair" is childish.
The report found that Irish officials essentially “reverse-engineered” Apple’s tax bill by first discussing with company representatives the size of the profit they wanted from the Irish branch. Apple’s own tax adviser acknowledged there was “no scientific basis” for the figures, the report said.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/01/business/international/eur...
Re: Apple's $348M Tax Settlement In Italy Bodes Ill For Google, Facebook, Microsoft
#129It's great how we're living in a world where tax codes are so idiotic and complex that it takes long lawsuits to figure out what tax is actually due. It's not about following the letter of the law; it's about following the letter of the law, avoiding the court of public opinion, and coughing up whatever is necessary to stop the complaints when some politician wants to distract people from their incompetence and whip…
Or just introduce 1% revenue tax, get rid of all other taxes and tax credits?
Re: Apple's $348M Tax Settlement In Italy Bodes Ill For Google, Facebook, Microsoft
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
To my understanding, this is money that is actually made outside the US. If Apple (US) sells an iPhone to an American customer, they will pay US corporate income tax on the profits from that sale. However, if Apple (Italy) sells an iPhone to an Italian customer, the 'double Irish' arrangement lets them avoid paying corporate income taxes on those profits. There are two issues here: 1. Some might argue that because Ap…
>If Apple (US) sells an iPhone to an American customer, they will pay US corporate income tax on the profits from that sale. Except they don't, really. They use the same "double Irish" scheme in the US. Apple has offshore holding companies that own the IP for that iPhone. When a US customer buys an iPhone, much of the actual profit gets shifted to the offshore subsidiaries as an expense. That's how they ended up with…