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Really rich people are suddenly paying quite a bit more in taxes

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Re: Really rich people are suddenly paying quite a bit more in taxes

#71

Post by ksec »

addicted wrote: post #32
jmspring wrote: post #10

I'm not a Trump fan, and despite likely tax hits, his proposal of simplifying the tax code (as many have done before him), getting rid of the IRS (yes jobs lost, but really, I got a certified letter owing $0.51 and they were "too busy with this category to answer. click ") would be a positive thing. One short summary of his proposal -- http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/donald-trump-unveils-his-... I think a pure fla…

The flat tax is an incredibly pointless solution. The flat tax is opposed to a progressive tax, that says that instead of having a tax rate of 15% for 100% of your income, you have a tax rate of 0% for the first $10000 of your income, 10% of the next 20000, and so on. This is something that can be calculated mentally, looked up using IRS published tables, or calculated with no effort in a 10 line script or some of th…

I know this is about US taxes only, ( And i am not from US ). But shouldn't mortgage reduction only be acceptable if you have one property only? If you have multiple property, then you are basically accumulating asset over a long period of time.

Re: Really rich people are suddenly paying quite a bit more in taxes

#72

Post by maratd »

OneMoreGoogler wrote: post #62

> It showed that the effective tax rate paid by those Americans jumped in 2013 to nearly 23 percent. As a data point, my family paid 28% average federal tax, on AGI of $355k. We are California residents. Taxes are regressive on the higher incomes, and that doesn't seem right.

> As a data point, my family paid 28% average federal tax

You made the mistake of earning that money by working. I am making the same mistake.

If you factor in sales taxes, property taxes, state income taxes, etc. I'm pretty sure you're giving half of what you earn to the government.

Re: Really rich people are suddenly paying quite a bit more in taxes

#73

Post by fweespeech »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #63
addicted wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The flat tax is an incredibly pointless solution. The flat tax is opposed to a progressive tax, that says that instead of having a tax rate of 15% for 100% of your income, you have a tax rate of 0% for the first $10000 of your income, 10% of the next 20000, and so on. This is something that can be calculated mentally, looked up using IRS published tables, or calculated with no effort in a 10 line script or some of th…

It's not a terrible solution. Ideally a flat tax (which pretty much always means a lower rate than high earners pay) simplifies the tax system, and makes high earners less likely to evade taxes. However it doesn't change the fact that really high earners get a lot of their wealth from investments, so in the end they'll still pay a lower total 'rate'. The highest tax burden will still be paid by upper middle-class pro…

Regressive taxes are inherently economically destructive.

I'm sorry but its just a terrible idea.

You can get a 0 deductions system with a progressive tax system too, it isn't some magical property of a flat tax.

Re: Really rich people are suddenly paying quite a bit more in taxes

#74

Post by maratd »

gnaritas wrote: post #66
Mikeb85 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a terrible solution. Ideally a flat tax (which pretty much always means a lower rate than high earners pay) simplifies the tax system, and makes high earners less likely to evade taxes. However it doesn't change the fact that really high earners get a lot of their wealth from investments, so in the end they'll still pay a lower total 'rate'. The highest tax burden will still be paid by upper middle-class pro…

> It's not a terrible solution. It's precisely a terrible solution. Yes, taxes are hard, but a solution that punishes the poor (or the not rich) by not recognizing the marginal utility of money is terrible in any form.

> punishes the poor by not recognizing the marginal utility of money

What does this have to do with the poor? Are you under the impression your federal tax dollars get redistributed to the poor? Government contractors aren't poor.

Do you have any idea what percentage of government proceeds are redistributed to the poor? Do not include social security. That money was taken from them to begin with.

Re: Really rich people are suddenly paying quite a bit more in taxes

#75

Post by morgante »

baddox wrote: post #65
morgante wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Could the same be done with government? I don't think so, just because the goods it provides are so numerous and muddled. Take one example: the fact that if I sign a contract I will feel legally obligated to follow through on it. This provides tremendous social good (billions of dollars worth), but it's very hard to quantify exactly how much. Then you have to figure out how much it costs to provide that good. Shoul…

> Take one example: the fact that if I sign a contract I will feel legally obligated to follow through on it. This provides tremendous social good (billions of dollars worth), but it's very hard to quantify exactly how much. It's not so clear how much of a service the government is providing there. Do you eagerly sign contracts with people you suspect would cheat you if they thought they could get away with it?

> Do you eagerly sign contracts with people you suspect would cheat you if they thought they could get away with it?

Yes, especially you include corporations as "people." Without the rule of law, I'm quite sure that corporations would find even more ways to generally break contracts and not honor their commitments.

Re: Really rich people are suddenly paying quite a bit more in taxes

#76

Post by voynich61 »

voynich61 wrote: post #57
poikniok wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you are a leech my friend, at least this man provides some service to the world, unlike you ...

1) We have no idea what this person does. He could be a tobacco company executive (or substitute some position you find immoral). 2) You have no idea what I do.

maratd: We live in a society where money is allocated with little regards to justice. Of course it doesn't matter what SlowComputer does. Agnostic to his occupation, the law should assist the poor by shaving a portion off the exorbitant sums SlowComputer makes yearly.

Re: Really rich people are suddenly paying quite a bit more in taxes

#77

Post by gnaritas »

SlowComputer wrote: post #11
gopi wrote: post #8

Most of the these articles never consider state/local level income taxes. For a person in California the total top capital gain tax rate is more than 33%. This is actually the second highest in the world. If you consider the regular income tax its even much worse, currently the combined income tax rate in California is more than 50%

I live in California. I'm not "super rich" but we earn more than $1MM/year. For every additional dollar I earn, I only get to keep 47 cents of it, just counting _income_ taxes. In reality, only high earners pay taxes. And high-salaried people are getting screwed under Obama's war against the most productive citizens.

> I live in California. I'm not "super rich" but we earn more than $1MM/year. > And high-salaried people are getting screwed under Obama's war against the most productive citizens.

Stop whining and blaming Obama; there's no war against productive citizens, you aren't a victim. You don't get to complain when you're among the wealthiest in the world that you don't get to keep enough money. 99.9% of the country makes less than you, have some fucking perspective and perhaps a bit of humility for gods sake.

Re: Really rich people are suddenly paying quite a bit more in taxes

#78

Post by bhickey »

harryh wrote: post #56
bhickey wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure the mortgage deduction exemption is horrendous, but I think income source discrimination is a bigger issue. We have different rates for wages, long-term capital gains, bonus income. Don't even get me started on carried interest. I'd also like to see social security contributions get uncapped. After $118k in income, your average tax rate falls until $189k. Even then, your mean tax rate will still be lower than so…

1) Wages and bonus income aren't taxed differently. 2A) When you take into account corporate taxes, inflation, and risk the difference between tax rates on wages and cap gains aren't as big as you might think. 2B) Many economists argue that there should be no capital gains taxes at all as they create a distortion between consumption and saving behavior. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimal_capital_income_taxatio...…

1) It looks like I'm mixing up the California withholding rate with the tax rate. Thanks.

2A) Granted. If I had a magical tax wand, I'd obliterate corporate taxation.

2B) It's an argument I've heard, but I'm more interested in avoiding arbitrage. My preferences might be mistaken. :)

3) If I hold the belief that we shouldn't tax income differently based on its source, Mankiw's argument doesn't have much force. His reasoning is sound, sure, but I'm not sold on the premise.

Re: Really rich people are suddenly paying quite a bit more in taxes

#79

Post by Mikeb85 »

gnaritas wrote: post #66
Mikeb85 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a terrible solution. Ideally a flat tax (which pretty much always means a lower rate than high earners pay) simplifies the tax system, and makes high earners less likely to evade taxes. However it doesn't change the fact that really high earners get a lot of their wealth from investments, so in the end they'll still pay a lower total 'rate'. The highest tax burden will still be paid by upper middle-class pro…

> It's not a terrible solution. It's precisely a terrible solution. Yes, taxes are hard, but a solution that punishes the poor (or the not rich) by not recognizing the marginal utility of money is terrible in any form.

There's pretty much always a minimum amount you need to make to pay taxes, most flat tax schemes are still progressive on the low end. Very few 'flat tax' proponents want to tax the poor (not much money in it anyway).

The idea with a flat tax isn't to punish the poor, but to reduce tax evasion on the higher end, and to reduce to burden on the middle class.

Re: Really rich people are suddenly paying quite a bit more in taxes

#80

Post by gnaritas »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #79
gnaritas wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not a terrible solution. It's precisely a terrible solution. Yes, taxes are hard, but a solution that punishes the poor (or the not rich) by not recognizing the marginal utility of money is terrible in any form.

There's pretty much always a minimum amount you need to make to pay taxes, most flat tax schemes are still progressive on the low end. Very few 'flat tax' proponents want to tax the poor (not much money in it anyway). The idea with a flat tax isn't to punish the poor, but to reduce tax evasion on the higher end, and to reduce to burden on the middle class.

Taxes should be progressive at all levels, setting a floor to exclude the poor from the unfairness doesn't make it more fair for the guy in the middle income ranges. All flat tax solutions are bad as they are all inherently unfair.
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