Really rich people are suddenly paying quite a bit more in taxes • Hacker News Board

Re: Really rich people are suddenly paying quite a bit more in taxes

#41

Post by jsankey » Thu, Dec 31, 2015, 4:00 AM UTC

gizmo686 wrote: post #33

skywhopper wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The challenge of a "flat tax" is defining "income". It's not as easy as you think, and basic intuitive "fairness" will result in a lot of income being excluded. Given that today's graduated tax system results in top-earners paying lower percentages, a "flat" tax will surely be worse. As for getting rid of the IRS, who will collect, administer, and audit the flat tax?

What makes defining "income" in a flat tax scheme more challenging (or more important) than defining it for a progressive tax scheme?

I don't think the GP was claiming it was more challenging. The point is making the tax flat doesn't help solve this key problem, so all you get is a less progressive system overall.

Re: Really rich people are suddenly paying quite a bit more in taxes

#42

Post by beaner » Thu, Dec 31, 2015, 4:01 AM UTC

nyolfen wrote: post #15

SlowComputer wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in California. I'm not "super rich" but we earn more than $1MM/year. For every additional dollar I earn, I only get to keep 47 cents of it, just counting _income_ taxes. In reality, only high earners pay taxes. And high-salaried people are getting screwed under Obama's war against the most productive citizens.

> I'm not "super rich" Annual Income: 1,000,000 Your percentile is: 99.9%

No idea whether or not this guy is super rich, but annual salary and net worth are two very different things.

Re: Really rich people are suddenly paying quite a bit more in taxes

#43

Post by beachstartup » Thu, Dec 31, 2015, 4:01 AM UTC

SlowComputer wrote: post #11

gopi wrote: post #8

Most of the these articles never consider state/local level income taxes. For a person in California the total top capital gain tax rate is more than 33%. This is actually the second highest in the world. If you consider the regular income tax its even much worse, currently the combined income tax rate in California is more than 50%

I live in California. I'm not "super rich" but we earn more than $1MM/year. For every additional dollar I earn, I only get to keep 47 cents of it, just counting _income_ taxes. In reality, only high earners pay taxes. And high-salaried people are getting screwed under Obama's war against the most productive citizens.

uh, you should probably move, instead of complaining about who's president.

Re: Really rich people are suddenly paying quite a bit more in taxes

#44

Post by harryh » Thu, Dec 31, 2015, 4:02 AM UTC

enraged_camel wrote: post #37

acchow wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where did you get these prices from? Why do you think it costs $10 million a year to hide all your money in the Caymans?

It's from the NYTimes piece linked in the article: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/30/business/economy/for-the-w...

It's a real mystery what that piece never explains that the biggest reason for the drop in % of income paid in taxes is just the drop (from 28% to 15%) in the top cap gains rate.

Re: Really rich people are suddenly paying quite a bit more in taxes

#45

Post by fragsworth » Thu, Dec 31, 2015, 4:04 AM UTC

SlowComputer wrote: post #11

gopi wrote: post #8

Most of the these articles never consider state/local level income taxes. For a person in California the total top capital gain tax rate is more than 33%. This is actually the second highest in the world. If you consider the regular income tax its even much worse, currently the combined income tax rate in California is more than 50%

I live in California. I'm not "super rich" but we earn more than $1MM/year. For every additional dollar I earn, I only get to keep 47 cents of it, just counting _income_ taxes. In reality, only high earners pay taxes. And high-salaried people are getting screwed under Obama's war against the most productive citizens.

It's somewhat infuriating. People get to sit on wealth, watch it grow, and then pay less in taxes on that income than someone who is contributing to society by working for a living.

Re: Really rich people are suddenly paying quite a bit more in taxes

#46

Post by harryh » Thu, Dec 31, 2015, 4:06 AM UTC

morgante wrote: post #36

harryh wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you were earning 7 figures and wanted to help society / people in need, would the government really be your best choice in terms of bang for your buck? Has anyone ever tried to make a serious attempt to analytically tackle this question? There are a lot of people that try to rank charities against each other in terms of effectiveness. Could the same be done with government? Or even some portion of government? I…

> Could the same be done with government? I don't think so, just because the goods it provides are so numerous and muddled. Take one example: the fact that if I sign a contract I will feel legally obligated to follow through on it. This provides tremendous social good (billions of dollars worth), but it's very hard to quantify exactly how much. Then you have to figure out how much it costs to provide that good. Shoul…

I tend to agree with you about the challenges. Even so, I'm now curious to know if some clever researcher has ever made an attempt!

Re: Really rich people are suddenly paying quite a bit more in taxes

#47

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Dec 31, 2015, 4:07 AM UTC

eru wrote: post #27

jmspring wrote: post #10

I'm not a Trump fan, and despite likely tax hits, his proposal of simplifying the tax code (as many have done before him), getting rid of the IRS (yes jobs lost, but really, I got a certified letter owing $0.51 and they were "too busy with this category to answer. click ") would be a positive thing. One short summary of his proposal -- http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/donald-trump-unveils-his-... I think a pure fla…

Just copy whatever Hong Kong or Singapore or Estonia are doing taxwise.

[deleted]

Re: Really rich people are suddenly paying quite a bit more in taxes

#48

Post by orangecat » Thu, Dec 31, 2015, 4:07 AM UTC

jsankey wrote: post #38

themartorana wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is my favorite proposal to date. Sales tax applies equally to a pencil and a yacht. It also encourages savings at lower income levels.

That's the problem, too -- it applies equally to necessities and luxuries. Sales taxes are regressive because there is a certain amount of non-discretionary spending everyone has to make, regardless of income, just to live.

Most sales tax proposals include a "universal rebate", which is a fixed monthly amount given to everyone that's intended to cover the tax on necessities.

Re: Really rich people are suddenly paying quite a bit more in taxes

#49

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Dec 31, 2015, 4:09 AM UTC

SlowComputer wrote: post #11

gopi wrote: post #8

Most of the these articles never consider state/local level income taxes. For a person in California the total top capital gain tax rate is more than 33%. This is actually the second highest in the world. If you consider the regular income tax its even much worse, currently the combined income tax rate in California is more than 50%

I live in California. I'm not "super rich" but we earn more than $1MM/year. For every additional dollar I earn, I only get to keep 47 cents of it, just counting _income_ taxes. In reality, only high earners pay taxes. And high-salaried people are getting screwed under Obama's war against the most productive citizens.

[deleted]

Re: Really rich people are suddenly paying quite a bit more in taxes

#50

Post by wtallis » Thu, Dec 31, 2015, 4:11 AM UTC

beaner wrote: post #42

nyolfen wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not "super rich" Annual Income: 1,000,000 Your percentile is: 99.9%

No idea whether or not this guy is super rich, but annual salary and net worth are two very different things.

It's an annual salary, not an isolated winning lottery ticket. Even if he doesn't currently have a super high net worth, he will soon enough unless he's spending like a lottery winner.