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Apple's $348M Tax Settlement In Italy Bodes Ill For Google, Facebook, Microsoft

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Re: Apple's $348M Tax Settlement In Italy Bodes Ill For Google, Facebook, Microsoft

#31

Post by jph »

hyperbovine wrote: post #27
bpodgursky wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No! No! No! What you legally owe in taxes, in a reasonable tax structure, has NOTHING to do with your moral compass. You should be able to plug numbers into a spreadsheet and get it. I'm not saying that taxes are bad. We need tax revenue. I get that. But there should NEVER, EVER, be two legally correct answers to how much you owe. The fact that you had to spend paragraphs making your case, makes mine -- when you reso…

> You should be able to plug numbers into a spreadsheet and get it. But we have that. Take profits and multiply by 0.35. Done.* The fact that Apple effectively pays less than %10 corporate tax rate in the US is, I think, what the parent poster was referring to.

Yes. Thanks for posting this. I've edited my original post to add your information.

Re: Apple's $348M Tax Settlement In Italy Bodes Ill For Google, Facebook, Microsoft

#32

Post by rubyfan »

gertef wrote: post #21
bpodgursky wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No! No! No! What you legally owe in taxes, in a reasonable tax structure, has NOTHING to do with your moral compass. You should be able to plug numbers into a spreadsheet and get it. I'm not saying that taxes are bad. We need tax revenue. I get that. But there should NEVER, EVER, be two legally correct answers to how much you owe. The fact that you had to spend paragraphs making your case, makes mine -- when you reso…

Until we have a One World Order with no nations, what do you propose?

It wouldn't matter anyway, we'd still have states. In the US, state to state regulations vary just as much.

One world government would be just as screwed up.

Re: Apple's $348M Tax Settlement In Italy Bodes Ill For Google, Facebook, Microsoft

#33

Post by marincounty »

bpodgursky wrote: post #11
jph wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What Apple owes is clear to me: pay the standard U.S. corporate tax on the standard U.S. profits. Do the same for all countries. The Apple problem is that its lawyers are deliberately avoiding using current tax codes, and instead essentially claiming that Apple is based in Ireland, then playing shell games with what counts as U.S. sales, U.S. profits, and also U.S. property. Apple ends up paying ~10% U.S. tax, rather…

No! No! No! What you legally owe in taxes, in a reasonable tax structure, has NOTHING to do with your moral compass. You should be able to plug numbers into a spreadsheet and get it. I'm not saying that taxes are bad. We need tax revenue. I get that. But there should NEVER, EVER, be two legally correct answers to how much you owe. The fact that you had to spend paragraphs making your case, makes mine -- when you reso…

Yea, I'm with you, but don't expect the United States to fight/do anything for that money/employees if we have some calamity.

Basically, if someone decides to take that money overseas--don't throw up you hands, and expect U.S. Soldiers to save the day.

So we live in this new world economy. Fine. If things go haywire; your company is on its own. Don't use our military. Don't use our government, and courts. Don't complain. You're on your own.

The problem , I see, is even if these companies didn't expect any favors from the United States in times of crisis; the United States would still try to rectify the problem. Tim Cook knows his money is safe anywhere. Why not pay close to nothing on profits? I wish we weren't the ambasitors of right/wrong, or the world's police.

Re: Apple's $348M Tax Settlement In Italy Bodes Ill For Google, Facebook, Microsoft

#34

Post by bpodgursky »

hyperbovine wrote: post #27
bpodgursky wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No! No! No! What you legally owe in taxes, in a reasonable tax structure, has NOTHING to do with your moral compass. You should be able to plug numbers into a spreadsheet and get it. I'm not saying that taxes are bad. We need tax revenue. I get that. But there should NEVER, EVER, be two legally correct answers to how much you owe. The fact that you had to spend paragraphs making your case, makes mine -- when you reso…

> You should be able to plug numbers into a spreadsheet and get it. But we have that. Take profits and multiply by 0.35. Done.* The fact that Apple effectively pays less than %10 corporate tax rate in the US is, I think, what the parent poster was referring to.

* except that's not really true

For it to be this simple, you're declaring that every company paying less than 35% tax is in breach of the law. Which is obviously not the case in the eyes of the IRS -- there is totally legitimate foreign income, deductions, etc etc.

Whether you think those things are a GOOD idea doesn't matter, there are plenty of companies paying way less than 35% which are not going to get prosecuted, and the IRS would declare in the clear.

Re: Apple's $348M Tax Settlement In Italy Bodes Ill For Google, Facebook, Microsoft

#35

Post by forrestthewoods »

Oletros wrote: post #17
forrestthewoods wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worse than that. Countries will make up taxes for foreign companies just because they can. Microsoft EU settlements being a prime example. Windows 7 N is one of the dumbest things ever. The whole situation makes a lot more sense if you view it as a tax.

> Countries will make up taxes for foreign companies just because they can. Microsoft EU settlements being a prime example. What has to do Microsoft N with taxes?

Windows 7 N exists because of the 2004 European Commission decision. That decision being a 497 million Euro fine. The fine was stupid when it was issued and it's ramifications were stupid when they forced Windows 7 N into existence.

If you view the fine as a tax it all makes far more sense. The fine is merely a tax that is the cost of doing business in Europe. Microsoft is willing to pay it because they still net profit in Europe. And Europe certainly has no issue demanding money from an American corporation.

Nation states demanding unreasonable things from foreign companies is nothing new. There's many a ruling that would have gone another way were the defendant a local entity.

Re: Apple's $348M Tax Settlement In Italy Bodes Ill For Google, Facebook, Microsoft

#36

Post by adventured »

wavefunction wrote: post #16
bpodgursky wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No! No! No! What you legally owe in taxes, in a reasonable tax structure, has NOTHING to do with your moral compass. You should be able to plug numbers into a spreadsheet and get it. I'm not saying that taxes are bad. We need tax revenue. I get that. But there should NEVER, EVER, be two legally correct answers to how much you owe. The fact that you had to spend paragraphs making your case, makes mine -- when you reso…

People pay their taxes, generally. Corporations on the other hand... Well many pay their taxes as well, if I'm being fair.

Very few corporations in the US can dance around jurisdictions to avoid high tax rates like Apple & Co can. To be fair, most American corporations pay very high tax rates compared to the rest of the world, and almost none of them as a percentage are able to avoid paying those high rates.

The median corporate income tax rate, is higher than the median individual income tax rate.

Re: Apple's $348M Tax Settlement In Italy Bodes Ill For Google, Facebook, Microsoft

#37

Post by Freestyler_3 »

v0x wrote: post #7
lvillani wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm using uBlock Origin and it works just fine.

Interesting. I'm using uBlock Origin 1.5.2 and the site refuses to load.

I got 1.5.2 as well but I can access forbes. (no message at all)

Re: Apple's $348M Tax Settlement In Italy Bodes Ill For Google, Facebook, Microsoft

#38

Post by Alupis »

jph wrote: post #10
bpodgursky wrote: post #8

It's great how we're living in a world where tax codes are so idiotic and complex that it takes long lawsuits to figure out what tax is actually due. It's not about following the letter of the law; it's about following the letter of the law, avoiding the court of public opinion, and coughing up whatever is necessary to stop the complaints when some politician wants to distract people from their incompetence and whip…

What Apple owes is clear to me: pay the standard U.S. corporate tax on the standard U.S. profits. Do the same for all countries. The Apple problem is that its lawyers are deliberately avoiding using current tax codes, and instead essentially claiming that Apple is based in Ireland, then playing shell games with what counts as U.S. sales, U.S. profits, and also U.S. property. Apple ends up paying ~10% U.S. tax, rather…

It's not somehow patriotic to pay more in taxes than you legally owe.

Re: Apple's $348M Tax Settlement In Italy Bodes Ill For Google, Facebook, Microsoft

#39

Post by derefr »

junto wrote: post #24
bpodgursky wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No! No! No! What you legally owe in taxes, in a reasonable tax structure, has NOTHING to do with your moral compass. You should be able to plug numbers into a spreadsheet and get it. I'm not saying that taxes are bad. We need tax revenue. I get that. But there should NEVER, EVER, be two legally correct answers to how much you owe. The fact that you had to spend paragraphs making your case, makes mine -- when you reso…

OK, I'll add another 'no' to you both. If a company is operating in a certain country offering goods and services to the population of that country then that country has the right to levy taxes upon the sales of those goods, and upon the operating profits of that company operating within that country. Global corporations fiddle this by moving money around so it appears that they don't make a corporate profit in that…

> A simple way to solve the problem is to levy an internet sales tax, which is the same percentage as the corporation tax that these companies should have paid if they were operating solely in that country in the first place.

Ah, but how does something like Google work, then? They don't sell a product to people all over the world (where tax can be collected); people all over the world are the product, and they sell that product to advertisers mostly from the US. Google uses the population of a country to make money without actually receiving any money from anyone in that country.

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