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In Memoriam: Ian Murdock

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Re: In Memoriam: Ian Murdock

#71

Post by coldtea »

cakes wrote: post #44
rdtsc wrote: post #19

Please let's not dig up links or make speculations about what happened. He was the founder of the Debian project, let's remember him for that or other contributions he's made to the tech community. Debian has grown to be one of the most well known and popular Linux distribution, used in production, in the cloud, as the base for SteamOS, Ubuntu and other projects. It is and was a major part of what made Linux popular.

Agreed - as much as anyone may want to know the exact reason(s) and or the "true" story...we may never know and while some form of closure is preferred we should avoid trying to figure out ourselves

Again, why not? Citizen (and internet/crowd-sourced) journalism has worked wonders in the past, getting to reveal things that happened etc.

Of course we won't ever be able to read his mind, but we can find much about what happened in the incident before he decided to commit suicide.

Re: In Memoriam: Ian Murdock

#73

Post by goddess_divine »

scrollaway wrote: post #52
kragen wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary: let's dig up all the links we can so that we can find out who was responsible, and prevent it from ever happening again. Just before he died, Ian had said he was going to devote the rest of his life to fighting police brutality: http://pastebin.com/dX3VSPkM Not only would we dishonor his memory by not digging up links and making speculations about what happened (did he commit suicide, possibly due to…

I should probably post this on a throwaway... but this hit somewhat close to home. A few years ago I was going through a very tough time. I lived in the UK at the time and went to california for a meetup. After even more personal crap happened, I went on a walk seriously considering suicide. Kept trying to call friends, family, nobody picked up, it was the hardest day of my life to get through. Next thing I knew I fo…

This is even the case in Canada though. I tried to overdose when I was 16 and someone found me. The cops were unfortunately first on the scene and started screaming at me, calling me all sorts of horrible things. When the ambulance arrived they then handcuffed me to the ambulance bed while I was getting my stomach pumped. I could barely move at that point. The cops are poorly trained and incompetent. I agree, never talk to the cops.

Re: In Memoriam: Ian Murdock

#74

Post by spb »

coldtea wrote: post #67
rdtsc wrote: post #19

Please let's not dig up links or make speculations about what happened. He was the founder of the Debian project, let's remember him for that or other contributions he's made to the tech community. Debian has grown to be one of the most well known and popular Linux distribution, used in production, in the cloud, as the base for SteamOS, Ubuntu and other projects. It is and was a major part of what made Linux popular.

> Please let's not dig up links or make speculations about what happened. Why? Seriously asking (I sometimes sneer, but I never troll). Perhaps the exact things that went through his mind to make this do this are not productive to speculate upon, but the overall incident with the police etc, is a public issue.

The problem with digging/speculation when emotions are high in general:

Person A makes a speculation.

Person B interprets Person A's speculation as the most likely explanation of the situation.

Persons C, D, and E overhear Person B describing Person A's speculation as fact, and start a mob over it. (Person A was wrong, by the way.)

This continues to snowball until people who were originally close to the situation (and are themselves still struggling to put the pieces together) are put through even more unnecessary trauma by complete strangers, in the middle of one of the most upsetting moments of their lives.

The alternative is to wait until the people most directly affected have had time to cope, get affairs in order, and figure out how to adequately convey what's happened to the greater population.

Re: In Memoriam: Ian Murdock

#75

Post by abtinf »

rdtsc wrote: post #19

Please let's not dig up links or make speculations about what happened. He was the founder of the Debian project, let's remember him for that or other contributions he's made to the tech community. Debian has grown to be one of the most well known and popular Linux distribution, used in production, in the cloud, as the base for SteamOS, Ubuntu and other projects. It is and was a major part of what made Linux popular.

This is the most fundamentally immoral comment I've ever read on HN. I can't even imagine the scale of community outrage if this comment were made after Aaron Swartz passing.

The world has lost a tremendous value with Ian's passing, and there is evidence directly from him that he was pushed into it. It appears from his twitter feed that his dying wish was to expose a tremendous and violent injustice committed against him.

Ask yourself: if evil pushed him to end his own life, then is it good or is it evil that benefits if we fail to demand a full investigation? And given the widely publicized difficulty of holding the police the account for anything, do you think there is any possibility of such an investigation without widespread and vocal community outrage?

Re: In Memoriam: Ian Murdock

#76

Post by ultramancool »

kragen wrote: post #38
rdtsc wrote: post #19

Please let's not dig up links or make speculations about what happened. He was the founder of the Debian project, let's remember him for that or other contributions he's made to the tech community. Debian has grown to be one of the most well known and popular Linux distribution, used in production, in the cloud, as the base for SteamOS, Ubuntu and other projects. It is and was a major part of what made Linux popular.

On the contrary: let's dig up all the links we can so that we can find out who was responsible, and prevent it from ever happening again. Just before he died, Ian had said he was going to devote the rest of his life to fighting police brutality: http://pastebin.com/dX3VSPkM Not only would we dishonor his memory by not digging up links and making speculations about what happened (did he commit suicide, possibly due to…

I've got an idea if someone really wants to go on a hunt... This might seem incredibly nosy, but I don't think it would be too personal - check RadioReference for his city, they archive police scanner feeds, if you pay them a little, you can access the archives.

If something happened and he was having some sort of mental health or drug problem, hopefully that would be mentioned, if something really did go down with the cops, you might hear a bit of that too. Might be interesting to see what exactly happened to him, just don't go jumping to any conclusions and starting witch hunts. This is crazy enough as it is and probably won't lead to a full picture in any case, but it might shed some light.

Re: In Memoriam: Ian Murdock

#77

Post by mulmen »

coldpie wrote: post #56
segmondy wrote: post #45

It really bothers me that traces of someone's existence can be wiped out with a mouse click, be it on twitter, google, facebook, or other sites. I read the tweets while this was going on, I was hoping he would find some other means to cope and raise awareness, and to hear that he actually went through with it. :-( I go to reread and see if there's anything I might have missed and his twitter page is gone as if he nev…

I agree. But I can't blame him for not wanting to involuntarily dedicate his life to fighting this bullshit. Given the choice between fighting a vastly corrupt and hostile police force, facing merciless prosecutors, being covered by the media, many of whom are hostile, being judged and discussed online, losing the career that you spent your life building, and never being able to leave any of that behind... and not ha…

Aaron Swartz, not Schwartz.

Re: In Memoriam: Ian Murdock

#79

Post by defen »

specialp wrote: post #70
samstave wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without giving too much detail in public, police were called to my house and I had just finished putting my children to bed. The officer was talking to me and then asked me to step on the porch, after doing so they had asked if I had been drinking - I said yes I had wine with my dinner, why. They then arrested me and refused to tell me why - their exact words were "you know why" and took me to jail. I then had to bai…

Perhaps I could be wrong, but isn't bail returned when one successfully shows up in court until the matter is adjudicated regardless of the outcome? The only way bail is forfeited is when the defendant skips out on returning to court.

If he used a bail bondsman there is typically a 10% fee (e.g. bail is $25,000; you pay the bondsman $2,500 and get bailed out)

Re: In Memoriam: Ian Murdock

#80

Post by cakes »

coldtea wrote: post #71
cakes wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed - as much as anyone may want to know the exact reason(s) and or the "true" story...we may never know and while some form of closure is preferred we should avoid trying to figure out ourselves

Again, why not? Citizen (and internet/crowd-sourced) journalism has worked wonders in the past, getting to reveal things that happened etc. Of course we won't ever be able to read his mind, but we can find much about what happened in the incident before he decided to commit suicide.

> but the overall incident with the police etc, is a public issue.

I'm not trying to specifically argue about this point of information but we don't even know the whole of that story or if it is even related to this at this time. I'm not saying it is or is not or anything like that. Just that we really don't know anything about what happened (yet and again, if ever).

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