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Major Linux Problems on the Desktop, 2016 Edition

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Re: Major Linux Problems on the Desktop, 2016 Edition

#121

Post by linuxhansl »

PaulHoule wrote: post #3

This is a situation that hasn't changed much since 1996 and the story of why it hasn't changed is a lot more interesting than a large enumeration of the faults. To compare it to Windows, Windows really has evolved a lot since the bad old days. Linux beat the pants off Windows 3.1 completely. Both Win95 and WinNT were unstable -- Win2K was the first decent version of Windows. Linux 2.6 was the one really important thi…

That simply isn't true.

The Kernel is just one aspect of a Linux distribution. The part that is most responsible for supporting H/W. It has evolved a lot since 1996. Whenever I try I find the range of supported H/W is larger than Windows and (obviously) Apple.

On other fronts things have changes radically: Video, Sound, 3D/GL, GUI (KDE, Gnome), printing, etc, etc.

Re: Major Linux Problems on the Desktop, 2016 Edition

#122

Post by sandGorgon »

enobrev wrote: post #110
sandGorgon wrote: post #61

I don't understand - I never see a mention of the biggest annoyance to developers on linux : consistent copy paste. It is a cognitive exercise to copy from the terminal or paste to the browser...or (the horror) copy from the terminal and paste on vim. It does not help that this works beautifully on the Mac. Is this not an annoyance to anyone else...and more importantly, considering all distros are now using libinput,…

Is the issue specific to terminal or are you seeing it somewhere else? The issue is that the default terminal behavior of ctrl+c sends a SIGINT to the running application[1], and so terminal programs override it with shift+ctrl+c, and likely add the shift for the others for consistency. I use "Terminator" as my terminal app - which allows you to set your keybindings - so I replace the "shift" in copy / paste and it's…

no please - I'm not talking about ctrl-C. I'm talking about CUA - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Common_User_Access

Even on OSX, the bindings that are used are cmd-c and cmd-v. It is universal - if you have never used the terminal, vim and firefox on a mac... I really urge you to do that.

you'll see what i mean.

Re: Major Linux Problems on the Desktop, 2016 Edition

#123

Post by sandGorgon »

icebraining wrote: post #96
sandGorgon wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But how do you paste? I mean I have all sort of keymaps to enable paste in vim using CUA (shift-insert), but try explaining that to a first time user. Its the small things that OSX does right.

Why would you need keymaps? As far as I know, the terminal emulator (urxvt in my case) takes care of pasting the text into Vim. I never had to configure anything to use shift-insert or the wheel button to paste.

ahh.. I see.

s/vim/gvim/g

Re: Major Linux Problems on the Desktop, 2016 Edition

#124

Post by ris »

Animats wrote: post #62

He's right. Many of the driver problems come from the fact that Linux finally worked on the desktop about the time desktop machines were replaced by laptops. Desktops with slots tended to have relatively well-defined hardware, and plugging in third party hardware was normal. This is much less true for laptops. OS development for laptops requires that laptop. It needs a Q/A organization which has one of everything you…

"The monolithic Linux kernel is just too big. What is it now, 20,000,000 lines? There's no hope of debugging that. It shows."

I don't think you know what you're talking about. It shows.

Name me one non-"monolithic" OS kernel in mainstream use that manages high throughput. And macos doesn't count as a microkernel.

Re: Major Linux Problems on the Desktop, 2016 Edition

#125

Post by sandGorgon »

icebraining wrote: post #97
audeyisaacs wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Highlight to copy, middle-click to paste. Works every time for me. Obviously, if you want to paste into vim you have to be in insert mode.

Pretty much, never had a problem with it.

my laptop does not have middle button. so I have to do a weird left-right button click. Very inconvenient for me.

I truly envy the OSX people just on this one aspect.

Re: Major Linux Problems on the Desktop, 2016 Edition

#126

Post by e12e »

audeyisaacs wrote: post #91
sandGorgon wrote: post #61

I don't understand - I never see a mention of the biggest annoyance to developers on linux : consistent copy paste. It is a cognitive exercise to copy from the terminal or paste to the browser...or (the horror) copy from the terminal and paste on vim. It does not help that this works beautifully on the Mac. Is this not an annoyance to anyone else...and more importantly, considering all distros are now using libinput,…

Highlight to copy, middle-click to paste. Works every time for me. Obviously, if you want to paste into vim you have to be in insert mode.

Technically vim exposes the x11 clipboards (plural) as registers - I never use registers, but I think

  "+p
[Ed: for those not familiar with vim: " can be thought of as 'with/from/into register named:', + is the register and p is paste. Similarily "+yw is 'yank/copy current word into register named +' ]

should be paste x11 selection. I don't normally use gvim/vim as an x11 application, but looks like * (star) is typically system clipboard:

http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Accessing_the_system_clipboard

Re: Major Linux Problems on the Desktop, 2016 Edition

#127

Post by lukeschlather »

evook wrote: post #27
wvenable wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's not uncommon to have to wait minutes for things to settle down after booting and logging in This is no longer my experience with Windows on an SSD. I'm always a bit shocked when I reboot and I'm back at my desktop in under 30 seconds. On a machine without an SSD, I'm annoyed at how slow everything is -- not just booting.

That's actually the reason windows is and will stay my main desktop system. Former Windows 7, now an "unfucked" Windows 10 Enterprise. It's just smoother than OSX or Linux Desktop and I always test some linux distros if I get new Hardware. Last time in novembre I upgrade to i7-6700k, Titan X, Samsung 950Pro 1TB. Of course it's necessary to have always at least one linux based server vm running I use putty to connect…

Linux biggest problem is perpetual rewrites. X11 is pretty much the only subsystem that hasn't suffered a backwards-incompatible rewrite in the past 10 years.

X11 could use some improvement, but I doubt a new system will address the core problems, which are basically the result of hardware drivers being written for Windows with Linux as an afterthought.

Re: Major Linux Problems on the Desktop, 2016 Edition

#128

Post by hyperpape »

dman wrote: post #66
geggam wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/mac-mini?product=MGEM2LL/A... Dont add any extras... its simply not usable on the net Hardware 1.4GHz Dual-Core Intel Core i5 (Turbo Boost up to 2.7GHz) 4GB 1600MHz LPDDR3 SDRAM 500GB Serial ATA Drive @ 5400 rpm Intel HD Graphics 5000 User's Guide (English) Accessory Kit

Maybe you have a faulty unit or are driving a very high resolution display. Otherwise at first glance that seems powerful enough to browse the net.

"The net" is a very varied place these days. It would be helpful to mention how many tabs you're using, the sites you're visiting, etc.

My work computer is a 3GHz i7 Mac Mini bought in early 2015, with 16GB ram, and I still have times when news sites freeze and won't scroll because someone has done something stupid when coding the site.

But my system uptime is 89 days and I get to the point where chrome shows a red bar because it hasn't been updated recently. There are a lot of irritating little bugs, but the only things that seem unstable are individual tabs and MyEclipse.

Re: Major Linux Problems on the Desktop, 2016 Edition

#129

Post by sandGorgon »

e12e wrote: post #126
audeyisaacs wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Highlight to copy, middle-click to paste. Works every time for me. Obviously, if you want to paste into vim you have to be in insert mode.

Technically vim exposes the x11 clipboards (plural) as registers - I never use registers, but I think "+p [Ed: for those not familiar with vim: " can be thought of as 'with/from/into register named:', + is the register and p is paste. Similarily "+yw is 'yank/copy current word into register named +' ] should be paste x11 selection. I don't normally use gvim/vim as an x11 application, but looks like * (star) is typica…

why does it work on osx then ? is there something special happening at the OS level there ?

Re: Major Linux Problems on the Desktop, 2016 Edition

#130

Post by Ologn »

pera wrote: post #89
jacob019 wrote: post #5

As a daily user of Linux on the desktop for over 15 years, I can appreciate many of these complaints, but despite it's flaws Linux on the desktop is a pleasure to use and is better than any other options. This is a nice resource for kernel developers and OSS contributors who wish to make a difference and solve tough problems.

Same here: started using Linux in 2000. Back then hardware support was a real big issue, software was missing, graphical environments for normal people not completely ready, etc. I think things really started to change after Ubuntu, and I would say that Linux got "ready for desktop" around 2008-9. My parents for instance have been using Ubuntu for many years (they also have a windows 7 laptop that is completely owned…

This has been my experience as well. I started using Linux some time around 1993-1995. Linux was inferior to FreeBSD in many ways back then (and for the following few years). Things got better and better and by 2008 it was a lot better on the desktop, and I think Ubuntu gets a lot of credit for that. It still had some trouble with wireless drivers and that sort of thing, but all these problems started clearing up over time.
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