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Major Linux Problems on the Desktop, 2016 Edition

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Re: Major Linux Problems on the Desktop, 2016 Edition

#71

Post by zurn »

Animats wrote: post #62

He's right. Many of the driver problems come from the fact that Linux finally worked on the desktop about the time desktop machines were replaced by laptops. Desktops with slots tended to have relatively well-defined hardware, and plugging in third party hardware was normal. This is much less true for laptops. OS development for laptops requires that laptop. It needs a Q/A organization which has one of everything you…

Only a minority of the problems in the list are laptop-specific. The hybrid graphics mess is an unfortunate one, though most people are well served by laptops with integrated-only video. People who want to play 3D games on laptops get the short stick.

Re: Major Linux Problems on the Desktop, 2016 Edition

#72

Post by brightball »

Animats wrote: post #62

He's right. Many of the driver problems come from the fact that Linux finally worked on the desktop about the time desktop machines were replaced by laptops. Desktops with slots tended to have relatively well-defined hardware, and plugging in third party hardware was normal. This is much less true for laptops. OS development for laptops requires that laptop. It needs a Q/A organization which has one of everything you…

Seems like a good way to cope with this, from a market standpoint, would be for Linux development to focus on specific laptop. If say, Dell, were to pay Ubuntu to test and verify for some of their specific laptops and then Ubuntu subsequently was able to list "100% Certified" laptops for purchase it could create an opening.

Same thing with developing to put it on Apple laptops with that very specific hardware set, etc.

Re: Major Linux Problems on the Desktop, 2016 Edition

#73

Post by JustSomeNobody »

chx wrote: post #49

I have one more which this article doesn't mention: Bluetooth. It's an extremely fragile house of cards (as far as I can figure, there are a few kernel modules, dbus, a bluetooth daemon and pulseaudio involved) and every upgrade you roll is extremely risky. Currently my BT works but after a day or so uptime it will simply stop working and nothing short of reboot helps. (More https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id…

I constantly battle Bluetooth issues on every platform. It sucks and needs to die.

Re: Major Linux Problems on the Desktop, 2016 Edition

#74

Post by incarnated »

condescendence wrote: post #20

I don't get articles like these. First of all this website is worse than any OS environment I've ever used. So right from that standpoint I sorta gulped a bit before reading on. Graphics driver issues in linux are nothing new, Nvidia a few years back started officially porting drivers to linux but that doesn't solve all the problems. There's also projects like Nouveau; so if you're complaining about linux desktop fro…

Tell me how one can update a Windows system (incl. all installed applications) in a straightforward manner. Windows comes with no package manager, as far as I know.

Re: Major Linux Problems on the Desktop, 2016 Edition

#75

Post by 0_00_0 »

evook wrote: post #27
wvenable wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's not uncommon to have to wait minutes for things to settle down after booting and logging in This is no longer my experience with Windows on an SSD. I'm always a bit shocked when I reboot and I'm back at my desktop in under 30 seconds. On a machine without an SSD, I'm annoyed at how slow everything is -- not just booting.

That's actually the reason windows is and will stay my main desktop system. Former Windows 7, now an "unfucked" Windows 10 Enterprise. It's just smoother than OSX or Linux Desktop and I always test some linux distros if I get new Hardware. Last time in novembre I upgrade to i7-6700k, Titan X, Samsung 950Pro 1TB. Of course it's necessary to have always at least one linux based server vm running I use putty to connect…

I agree, thankfully Wayland is well on its way. GDM uses it by default as of 3.16 and the Gnome DE just needs a --session=-gnome-wayland parameter.

It has actually gotten to the point where it's stable enough for daily use now.

Re: Major Linux Problems on the Desktop, 2016 Edition

#76

Post by sandGorgon »

evook wrote: post #27
wvenable wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's not uncommon to have to wait minutes for things to settle down after booting and logging in This is no longer my experience with Windows on an SSD. I'm always a bit shocked when I reboot and I'm back at my desktop in under 30 seconds. On a machine without an SSD, I'm annoyed at how slow everything is -- not just booting.

That's actually the reason windows is and will stay my main desktop system. Former Windows 7, now an "unfucked" Windows 10 Enterprise. It's just smoother than OSX or Linux Desktop and I always test some linux distros if I get new Hardware. Last time in novembre I upgrade to i7-6700k, Titan X, Samsung 950Pro 1TB. Of course it's necessary to have always at least one linux based server vm running I use putty to connect…

Really recommend Fedora 23 - login using Wayland. You will be truly surprised. FYI - you can try it out without installing (as a livecd)

Re: Major Linux Problems on the Desktop, 2016 Edition

#77

Post by ksk »

melted wrote: post #51
izacus wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your single laptop datapoint sure makes this article invalid :)

The article is just as data free as my single data point. My experience contradicts it. I use Linux _everywhere_ these days, on the desktop, on the laptop, and on my workstation at work. It works well. It's just not Windows, which seems to be the author's main consternation.

>The article is just as data free as my single data point.

It is not. The lack of a crash does not indicate lack of bugs. But, even a single crash confirms that bugs exist. (modulo the obvious)

Re: Major Linux Problems on the Desktop, 2016 Edition

#78

Post by takhn »

sandGorgon wrote: post #61

I don't understand - I never see a mention of the biggest annoyance to developers on linux : consistent copy paste. It is a cognitive exercise to copy from the terminal or paste to the browser...or (the horror) copy from the terminal and paste on vim. It does not help that this works beautifully on the Mac. Is this not an annoyance to anyone else...and more importantly, considering all distros are now using libinput,…

ctrl-shift-C on the terminal, ctrl-V on everything else. How is this a significant annoyance to you?

Re: Major Linux Problems on the Desktop, 2016 Edition

#79

Post by aerique »

sandGorgon wrote: post #61

I don't understand - I never see a mention of the biggest annoyance to developers on linux : consistent copy paste. It is a cognitive exercise to copy from the terminal or paste to the browser...or (the horror) copy from the terminal and paste on vim. It does not help that this works beautifully on the Mac. Is this not an annoyance to anyone else...and more importantly, considering all distros are now using libinput,…

Oh, this was an annoyance until I installed a clipboard manager (parcellite in my case) which automatically syncs the different clipboards.

Re: Major Linux Problems on the Desktop, 2016 Edition

#80

Post by bkor »

condescendence wrote: post #60
izacus wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1.) "Everyone" is a very wide net to cast, considering people in THIS VERY comment thread try to prove how their personal GPU works so Linux is fine. 2.) It's a yearly review. The issues haven't gone away. That's why they're still listed, just because "everyone" knows them, they're still outstanding issues. You know, like GitHub issues - they don't go away UNTIL YOU FIX THAT.

facepalm 1)What are you even arguing? Yes some cards actually do work fine with linux I've had similar experiences 2) We have lists, and it's pretty funny they actually are Github issues! https://github.com/linuxmint/Cinnamon/issues for example As an actual linux developer, this webpage is fucking useless. It has no specifics on project or targets. Thats what a real development review is about. What do we have, what…

To add to what you said: Some parts are useful on its own. Don't need targets, having a list of Linux issues is helpful enough. If you're involved in a project you can pickup bits and take it from there.

But that's combined with a lot of offputting content. E.g. the need to say everything is correct because Slashdot agrees and saying/suggesting Slashdot is unbiased and representative. Swearing at the developers who actually put in work (disagree heavily all you want, but no need to swear). Same for saying/suggesting that some developers don't mean well. Initially I only read the first part and thought it quite improved from the last time I read it. But no, again the argumentative stop energy. :-(

Further, a few of his issues are just opinions. Why combine that with the others?

Someone else said here: "he's right". Unfortunately not and again I already regret reading the various drivel parts.

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