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Major Linux Problems on the Desktop, 2016 Edition

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Re: Major Linux Problems on the Desktop, 2016 Edition

#41
At home: Older Thinkpad (x220) with ssd. Slackware 14.1/Microlinux desktop. Seems to work OK. Noticed no mention of xfce in the OA.

At work: Dual core atom small form factor PC. Large and bright 19" monitor (I swapped for an 1280x1024 one as I don't like letterbox format monitors). Windows 10 for Education works OK and has stable graphics drivers for the PC.

I suspect my use cases are so basic any reasonable system would cover them.

Re: Major Linux Problems on the Desktop, 2016 Edition

#42
post #12

This "Android is not Linux" meme is pretty silly. "Android contains the only Linux component - the kernel" can also describe any distribution/OS using Linux.

Technically correct. But no Linux distro has so radically altered the userland as Android: One runtime and one UI stack for all apps. That might not be the only way to make Linux into a widely used consumer OS, but it is, by several orders of magnitude, the most successful approach so far.

Re: Major Linux Problems on the Desktop, 2016 Edition

#43
post #40

I don't know about this article. I bough a 3rd gen Thinkpad Carbon earlier this year and Ubuntu runs better than Windows 10 on it. Not a single crash. The only thing that doesn't work out of the box is the fingerprint reader. Not that it doesn't have some rough edges, but this is enormous progress compared to just a few years ago, and the fact that it runs better than the OS _the laptop was designed for_ is a testame…

Your single laptop datapoint sure makes this article invalid :)

Re: Major Linux Problems on the Desktop, 2016 Edition

#44
post #21
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, there's no consumer-level desktop hardware you can't use on either Windows or OS X or both. That's false. Hardware support is indeed a reason not to use Linux, but the question is who needs to pick up the slack. With other operating systems, manufacturers put (more or less) effort into writing device drivers that are functional. With Linux, they really do not. It's a large and moving target, and the market value…

Really? There's plenty of old hardware which no longer works in recent Windows versions. It's not in a manufacture's interest to update a driver to recent OS versions. In Linux drivers usually remain for a long time.

Example: Sony VIAO laptops

http://esupport.sony.com/LA/perl/os10upgrade.pl?stage1=24&st...

"IMPORTANT:

Drivers for other hardware components such as Network cards, etc..., may be available on the manufacturer's web site. Sony software applications that originally shipped with the computer may not work after installing Windows 10. Sony cannot guarantee your system capability after installing Windows 10."

Had a friend with this. Sony sold division to some other corporation. Which leaves Win10 qualified drivers for such optional things as, oh, WIRELESS NETWORKING in limbo after a Win10 upgrade.

Sure, you or I would pull the wifi card model, go to the manufacturer's site, and use the drivers from there. But Joe, Sally, Bob, or Jane public aren't going to get past "Wifi stopped working, and it wasn't on the update screen".

Re: Major Linux Problems on the Desktop, 2016 Edition

#45

This is a situation that hasn't changed much since 1996 and the story of why it hasn't changed is a lot more interesting than a large enumeration of the faults. To compare it to Windows, Windows really has evolved a lot since the bad old days. Linux beat the pants off Windows 3.1 completely. Both Win95 and WinNT were unstable -- Win2K was the first decent version of Windows. Linux 2.6 was the one really important thi…

> Win95 and WinNT were unstable

Not to worry, in my experience Win 10 is returning to its roots of being unstable. At least on laptops.

Re: Major Linux Problems on the Desktop, 2016 Edition

#46
post #6

To me this reads as "I can't use hardware xyz on linux". Well, that's no surprise. There's "wxy" hardware that you can't use with Windows or OS X as well. Today Linux supports the same amount (or more) hardware that Windows does. Hardware support is not a reason to use or not use Linux. The software ecosystem is much more important - not to mention the freedom aspect...

No, funtionality is important. It doesnt matter how free the software is if it doesnt work. I don't know where you live, but in both the countries I live in you cannot buy linux compatible wifi adaptors over the counter. I can't close my office or loungeroom doors at the moment, because none of the three wifi adaptors I own work with ubuntu, so theres a massive network cable snaking through both. The hardware compatibility lists for distros are regularly out of date and rarely comprehensive. If you expect the average citizen of the world to trawl forums for compatibility info and pay hundreds of dollars in shipping and wait weeks to get compatible hardware that only seems to be sold in the US, you've got buckleys. To be frank, your attitude is what holds back desktop linux. We need to admit these flaws and fix them, not blame the world for being insufficiently hardcore.

Re: Major Linux Problems on the Desktop, 2016 Edition

#47
post #21
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, there's no consumer-level desktop hardware you can't use on either Windows or OS X or both. That's false. Hardware support is indeed a reason not to use Linux, but the question is who needs to pick up the slack. With other operating systems, manufacturers put (more or less) effort into writing device drivers that are functional. With Linux, they really do not. It's a large and moving target, and the market value…

Really? There's plenty of old hardware which no longer works in recent Windows versions. It's not in a manufacture's interest to update a driver to recent OS versions. In Linux drivers usually remain for a long time.

Probably, but I'd also wager that the majority of those devices use physical connections that any machine capable of running recent windows versions do not have. E.g. DB-25 ports.

I will also wager that the only real "wall" that would prevent old hardware from working was the removal of 16-bit support from x64 versions of windows.

Re: Major Linux Problems on the Desktop, 2016 Edition

#48
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a single location summary of things that still have to be done / are lacking in the project. It's thus useful for contributors to see what needs work, since it's easy to get tunnel vision when working on a project. Don't you have such yearly reviews on your long-running projects?

Contributors of distributions already have their goals and and sights set. Everyone knows these issues of linux, they've been ongoing for years. This list has been compiled many times, that's why I'm so harsh to it. It's literally as if someone just copied ans pasted. This is a direct copy from wikipedia: __________________________________________ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Linux Critics of Linux on t…

1.) "Everyone" is a very wide net to cast, considering people in THIS VERY comment thread try to prove how their personal GPU works so Linux is fine.

2.) It's a yearly review. The issues haven't gone away. That's why they're still listed, just because "everyone" knows them, they're still outstanding issues. You know, like GitHub issues - they don't go away UNTIL YOU FIX THAT.

Re: Major Linux Problems on the Desktop, 2016 Edition

#49
I have one more which this article doesn't mention: Bluetooth. It's an extremely fragile house of cards (as far as I can figure, there are a few kernel modules, dbus, a bluetooth daemon and pulseaudio involved) and every upgrade you roll is extremely risky. Currently my BT works but after a day or so uptime it will simply stop working and nothing short of reboot helps. (More https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=206032 here)

And yes, I have been running Linux since before there was 1.0. And no, I don't like it. But the alternatives are even worse IMO.

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