141–150 of 172 posts
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nice ad hominem. Let me try it too: Oh, you must be very dumb.
2/10. You have to use condescension to add insult to something innocuous, not just toss out an insult.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It's not a matter of privilege, it's a matter of ability. In tech more than any other field, because you don't need a college degree to get a good paying job. You just need to have the desire and ambition to learn. My takeaway from the fact that you don't need any particular formal education to get a well-paying job is that the tech industry hires and pays people without regard to ability. Like, the entire reason F…
Just to be clear, what do you mean by unable to write it? Are the cases where people make a common mistake, but are quickly able to fix it, counted (such as forgetting to fizz and buzz for certain numbers). What about cases where the people can code the algorithm, but can't do everything to get a program that will compile. For example, using Visual Studio with C# means some of the basic scaffolding is almost always g…
http://blog.codinghorror.com/why-cant-programmers-program/
http://imranontech.com/2007/01/24/using-fizzbuzz-to-find-dev...
My reading is that the scaffolding isn't the problem, writing that loop and conditional, within the margin of error of what compiler errors / an IDE can tell you to fix, is the problem. So essentially yes, they're staring at a blank sheet of paper.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I did say "time to teach yourself", please read more closely.
> With almost anything else you need all of the above plus a college or other formal education. I did misread this. Still I'm not sure this is true. Is it really the case that only in computers you're not required to have formal education to get a well placed job? That seems unlikely. I don't feel that I have enough information either way from my own experience (in computers, without a formal education in it and know…
Computers are not dangerous of themselves, they are dangerous when you rely on them. When you screw up software it's really easy to hit the reset button at no cost. When you screw up fixing a device, it might cost you money.
Also in construction you usually need some sort of formal education for the better paying jobs. Plumbers, electricians and so on have certifications, licenses apprenticeship programs.
Well, to soften this up a bit, this is what it is like at every warehouse in the world. Of course it isn't going to be anything like a nice tidy whitecollar office job. The article sounds a bit like it was written by someone with no prior experience with this type of work.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
recruiting is very often a shit show for all kinds of reasons I never before experienced the kind of rudeness and incompetence during hiring I had encountered while being interviewed in the Bay Area tech scene. Interviewers not keeping phone appointments. Interviewers blatantly not listening. Interviewers basically (incorrectly) implying that I'm lying. I will observe that the YCombinator companies fared much better…
I'm on the East Coast, and I've interviewed with a fair number of East Coast and West Coast companies and the West Coast ones were by far the worst. Google and Amazon have been fair to middling, but there's been some that were probably so inept it has to fall under some kind of criminal law somewhere.
They seemed very surprised when he laughed and told them they were too late, he'd got work elsewhere, as if they somehow expected him to sit around on his arse waiting for the job.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Maybe we're just misunderstanding what each other means by privilege. > why can't coal miners just start writing single page apps in React.js over a few weekends, why can't this part time middle aged mom from Walmart who was laid off as an HR person just write Android apps and make more money Absolutely, I don't think they can. They don't have the free time, and they're worn out after a long day of work. That's not t…
> "privilege mentality" I see a discussion ensued ;-) The privilege mentality I define as a worldview (or call it an attitude) where those who have the privilege (it doesn't have to be money, it could be time, social status, freedom, or health, or any other significant advantage) have a hard time understanding the position of those that don't have it. This usually happens when talking about wealth as privilege. And m…
The truth, as always, is that it's a very nuanced issue, and we both have valid points. You're right about people who inherit all their wealth. They often lack basic empathy for their fellow citizens and lack the understanding that they didn't truly earn what they have. And I'm right that there are people out there who truly do, against all odds, become successful without much help from anyone else. I think it's extremely important to recognize both of those truths and call them both what they are rather than yelling past each other to push our own political or ideological agendas.
I struggle with this on a daily basis, especially as a former liberal.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
If I were a demon from Hell, tasked by Satan himself to ruin discourse about opportunity and egalitarianism, I could scarcely do better than calling people "privileged". Think about it from the accused's point of view. Yes they were lucky in many ways, but they also worked hard to get to where they are. Then someone belittles their efforts, claiming it's simply because they are privileged. Privileged? Even an average…
Nobody is accused here. Let's not get too excited. Privilege is a loaded word so I should have used another one perhaps. Privilege is strategic position of advantage. You have or have access to time, money, wealth, power, super-power etc that other don't have. And it is relative. I'd say tech people have that power compared to workers in an Amazon warehouse. We can work from home, can demand our own salaries, jump to…
That's a ridiculous straw man. I don't think anyone in this thread would agree with that statement.
> Those are good to describe how they got to the position of privilege. Which often has a mix of things like luck, hard work, and others. That is why used the word. Using something like "strategic life advantage" sounds a bit odd though.
Of course we all rely on a bit of luck and help from others. But the problem with telling someone you've never met before that they need to "check their privilege" is that you don't know a thing about them. It's offensive in exactly the same way that accusing the poor of being lazy is. If you don't take the time to get to know someone and learn about what they've been through and why they are where they are then you don't get to say things like "you're lazy" or "you're privileged". If you'll pardon my French, "you don't fucking know me".
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Unless someone has broken the law in their process of accumulating resources, they are legally in possession of such resources.
We're not talking about legality, we're talking about deserved merit. And as you yourself have shown, one cannot really independently judge merit, as it always comes down to who is actually judging it. Making the idea of a meritocracy not really feasible.
Would agree.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> "privilege mentality" I see a discussion ensued ;-) The privilege mentality I define as a worldview (or call it an attitude) where those who have the privilege (it doesn't have to be money, it could be time, social status, freedom, or health, or any other significant advantage) have a hard time understanding the position of those that don't have it. This usually happens when talking about wealth as privilege. And m…
So what about people who start out with very little and become "privileged" later on? If I am a self made millionaire (no inheritance, no college, etc) can I then have an opinion about poor people? I think I know your answer, though, and it's that nobody actually becomes successful on their own; that we all owe everything we earn to other people, and therefore can never truly take full credit for anything we accompli…
That would be pretty much be my answer.
Yeah it is nuanced issue and I agree it is hard to figure out. It is not even the divide between the two people, but even between the same person who was poor and now maybe made it (through a combination of factors: work, luck, etc).
I often have to stop and remember what it was like to ration food or stand in long lines to get bread and so on. And I find myself criticizing like I mentioned others do (why don't they learn to program it is easy or why don't they work 3 jobs, save and invest etc.) it takes a bit of introspection to catch myself not doing it.
> I struggle with this on a daily basis, especially as a former liberal.
I don't even know if am a liberal or conservative. Probably a mix depending on issues.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nobody is accused here. Let's not get too excited. Privilege is a loaded word so I should have used another one perhaps. Privilege is strategic position of advantage. You have or have access to time, money, wealth, power, super-power etc that other don't have. And it is relative. I'd say tech people have that power compared to workers in an Amazon warehouse. We can work from home, can demand our own salaries, jump to…
> And my point is, looking back those people will say "I am here because I worked hard and everyone one else who is complaining is kind of lazy and should have worked hard as That's a ridiculous straw man. I don't think anyone in this thread would agree with that statement. > Those are good to describe how they got to the position of privilege. Which often has a mix of things like luck, hard work, and others. That is…
Nobody here does but it is a common attitude, I have heard it many times from conservative acquaintances and family. This phenomenon was epitomized by the "welfare queen" PR term in US in the 90s and early 2000s, and to some extend I believe "unwed single mother" in UK. It as a figure put up a prototype of how poor people are just waiting for handouts, are lazy and if they just work harder would be successful business owners.
> to "check their privilege"
I didn't say that. Is that a strawman I see ;-) ?
> If you don't take the time to get to know someone and learn about what they've been through
I didn't direct my comments at anyone in particular. I responded to a comment because they brought an interesting point my mind but I didn't accuse or insult them.
What I said in general is that there is a tendency for people who have made it to ascribe their results to their hard work and willpower even if in reality it was a complicated mix of country they were born, parents, good networking (friends), etc.
> If you'll pardon my French, "you don't fucking know me".
Alrighty then...