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I worked at Amazon to see if anything's changed

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Re: I worked at Amazon to see if anything's changed

#51

Post by VLM »

marknutter wrote: post #20
js8 wrote: post #8

I think it's great articles like that get posted here - it's a window to employment conditions that techies would never accept. It's a good reminder of privilege.

> it's a window to employment conditions that techies would never accept. I absolutely would accept those employment conditions if I didn't have any other options and needed to make money to survive. I would also spend my free time learning a skill so I could get a better job at some point in the future. > It's a good reminder of privilege. It's not a matter of privilege, it's a matter of ability. In tech more than a…

"I would also spend my free time learning a skill"

They only get 13 hours a day away from work, minus long sounding (and expensive) public transit each way, so good luck with that. Of course its temp work so between jobs, as long as they somehow have a place to live and food to eat, they could study, in theory.

Also most unskilled labor jobs are already staffed with skilled laborers. Everyone in unskilled labor older than about 20 already has some story along the lines of "I was a (blank) before the (accident | disease | downsizing | divorce) and now I'm here in the warehouse, no jobs you know." Why would a newly educated nurse or soldier get hired when there's a better qualified experienced one currently underemployed and working next to the clickbait author? There would be very little point in spending time and going in to debt to become a nurse if the best job a nurse can find is the one he already has working in a warehouse.

Re: I worked at Amazon to see if anything's changed

#52

Post by JoBrad »

threatofrain wrote: post #13

It's silly to blame Amazon for what we think is immoral behavior, as if we were going to shame Amazon into decency. Amazon is following the law here. It is the law which is indecent. We must think not about why Amazon is indecent, but rather how Amazon is lawful. In sum, Amazon should be mechanistically compelled into socially harmonious behavior, not shamed into it.

It is ridiculous to say that we simply need to pass laws to address unacceptable behavior from companies. I firmly believe in regulation as a force for good, but attempting to create regulation that addresses specific companies or situations usually results in a mass of outdated regulation that becomes a hindrance in a few years. Companies should treat their workers well because it's the right thing to do, not simply adhere to the letter of the law because it's the lawful thing to do.

Re: I worked at Amazon to see if anything's changed

#53

Post by ra1n85 »

geofft wrote: post #45
ra1n85 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who will determine where merit is deserved and undeserved? You? The Flying Spaghetti Monster?

I was assuming that "merit" inherited from parents is undeserved, but yeah, perhaps that's unjustified. Do you have an argument that it is deserved?

Unless someone has broken the law in their process of accumulating resources, they are legally in possession of such resources.

Re: I worked at Amazon to see if anything's changed

#55

Post by 6stringmerc »

Having been a seasonal employee on several occasions, this article does a good job of portraying the casual attitude large companies seem to take with expendible labor forces. I've seen it first-hand even in smaller situations (ex: an indie movie theater for summer staffing), and while most were a bit better organized (better forms, personalised off-site testing), it's still pretty understandable. If Amazon isn't sympathetic to the transportation plight of the workers, I don't think I can fault them - that's pretty common for most jobs in my experience.

It's definitely a personal thing, but after all sorts of job roles, I'd probably think the quiet, repetitve tasks and 'timing' aspect of the hourly job actually kind of okay. Gives me time in my head without having to make small talk. Or deal with bad customers. I guess what I'm saying is that I'd still rather take the Amazon job than one where I had to work directly with customers in service or retail. Especially if said customers trend toward elderly...sure, moving boxes in a hurry can be stressful, but I'd prefer that to trying to explain/sell to a confused, sometimes impatiently angry monied elderly person, because boxes lack emotional outbursts.

Re: I worked at Amazon to see if anything's changed

#56

Post by cableshaft »

ikeboy wrote: post #39
CaptSpify wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, I like them as a amazon.com customer. I guess to make things awesome on the outside, those on the inside have to suffer... I've never understood this logic. Amazon is making a ton of money (rightly so, imo), they could afford to trim down quite a bit. Why should those on the inside be forced to suffer?

Their profit margins are tiny. Look up earnings for recent quarters.

Their profit margins are tiny by design. They put all of their profits into technology investment, and have been doing it intentionally for a long time. See: http://www.technologyreview.com/news/520801/no-stores-no-sal...

Re: I worked at Amazon to see if anything's changed

#57

Post by n-exploit »

lucisferre wrote: post #30
marknutter wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's a window to employment conditions that techies would never accept. I absolutely would accept those employment conditions if I didn't have any other options and needed to make money to survive. I would also spend my free time learning a skill so I could get a better job at some point in the future. > It's a good reminder of privilege. It's not a matter of privilege, it's a matter of ability. In tech more than a…

> free time What makes you think those people have free time after 12.5 hour days and a commute out to the middle of nowhere?

Studying during a commute is a thing, right?

Re: I worked at Amazon to see if anything's changed

#58

Post by geofft »

ra1n85 wrote: post #53
geofft wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was assuming that "merit" inherited from parents is undeserved, but yeah, perhaps that's unjustified. Do you have an argument that it is deserved?

Unless someone has broken the law in their process of accumulating resources, they are legally in possession of such resources.

I'm not disputing legality. There are plenty of unjust but valid laws that uphold a non-meritocratic society.

Re: I worked at Amazon to see if anything's changed

#59

Post by phillmv »

rdlecler1 wrote: post #22
kbart wrote: post #2

"My name is spelt wrong on my badge, mate," I told him "Oh, that's fine, nobody cares about your name here anyway; we just need your barcode – that's all." Sounds like something written by G. Orwell.. Still better than sweatshops in China or 3rd world countries I guess.

Oddly enough, While flying back from Shanghai in 2006, the Caucasian woman next to me had a son that worked on the line in one of their sweatshops and had done it for over a year. They were from a prettywealthy family that produced things in China and the son decided he wanted to start at the very bottom. She said he insisted on sleeping in the dorms, would not take a special AC unit offered to him, ate with the rest…

That sounds like he was job training to be a manager/owner later.

I strongly doubt a fluent, well educated westerner in China was going to be stuck with working on the factory floor as a career plan.

Re: I worked at Amazon to see if anything's changed

#60

Post by threatofrain »

js8 wrote: post #8

I think it's great articles like that get posted here - it's a window to employment conditions that techies would never accept. It's a good reminder of privilege.

I don't think business people care enough about privilege to pay the salaries of software engineers. Software engineers are paid on leverage, their leverage on company profits.

The lens of deservance is not productive.

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