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2015: The year that Microsoft started getting the benefit of the doubt

arstechnica.com

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Re: 2015: The year that Microsoft started getting the benefit of the doubt

#161

Post by criddell »

yuhong wrote: post #147
criddell wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They need all that information for things like Cortana to do it's magic. For those of us that don't need or want Cortana (or Siri or OK Google) on the desktop, they shouldn't need my data. Telemetry after a crash or with regards to OS function usage seems OK to me, but I don't want my calendar, phone book, or email sent to the cloud for analysis. I don't see how small medical offices can use Windows anymore (big ones…

I recommend that you read this: https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/mt577208(v=vs.85...

That's pretty comprehensive. Thanks!

I only have access to Windows 10 Pro and would like to turn off all personalization options. All I want my operating system to do is support the applications I want to run.

I've found some of the Powershell scripts that do things like uninstall the XBox music app (or whatever it's called), but after an update it just reappears. It's very frustrating.

Re: 2015: The year that Microsoft started getting the benefit of the doubt

#162

Post by sangnoir »

sz4kerto wrote: post #96
meagain20000 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would not happily return to them. In fact, I see no reason why. To me, they are still in their same embrace, extend, extinguish mode only that now their cycle is a lot longer. It could even be that nadella really thinks that he will always be in the embrace and extend phase. My gut feeling is that as soon as it becomes hugely beneficial to them somebody within the company will advocate for the extinguish phase. Don…

"Don't trust Microsoft. It is in their DNA to screw you." Companies don't have a DNA. Humans do. Companies change as employees come and go, as the environment changes, etc. Don't antropomorphize them. Companies act in their financial interest. Very rarely not, but mostly yes. I don't know why is it so hard to accept that.

> Companies don't have a DNA

What then is this "company culture" I hear about all time on HN? Also, what percentage of employees have changed at Microsoft since the "old" Microsoft - 60, 75, 90%?

If companies don't have DNA/culture/behavioral momentum and can change at the drop of a pin, it implies all the work that has been done can be undone by Nadella's successor in short order.

Re: 2015: The year that Microsoft started getting the benefit of the doubt

#163

Post by sangnoir »

amelius wrote: post #129

They already had a lot of cred with me because of their research, which is publicly available at research.microsoft.com. Contrast this with, say, Apple, which created some open source projects, but not much more.

Apple is more of a forker/adopter of open source projects rather than a creator. It's not better or worse: just an observation on a number of their open source projects.

Re: 2015: The year that Microsoft started getting the benefit of the doubt

#165

Post by puranjay »

tcube wrote: post #128
puranjay wrote: post #110

Well that's nice and all, but all these years later, I still don't know how to buy a Surface in India. Buying Windows is still a royal mess (the local eCommerce stores have wildly different pricing for different variants, which is again different from the local MS store, which is different from the US store). MS might be making cool products, but it sure as hell isn't keen on making them easy to buy.

Maybe because it will only be launched in January 2016 in India. http://www.windowscentral.com/surface-pro-4-slated-launch-in...

Which is exactly my point. What's the point of making consumers wait that long?

Re: 2015: The year that Microsoft started getting the benefit of the doubt

#166

Post by UK-AL »

frik wrote: post #48
ifdefdebug wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think their open sourcing is some kind of desperate attempt. They open sourced .NET understanding that developer tools and languages have to be open source nowadays, if they want adoption.

Without developers Microsoft tools and platform will shrink a lot and fast. It was basically their only chance to open source the new dotNet core. And try everything incl. their TypeScript tactics on JavaScript to get developers back into their development tool eco system - and to lock-in them into their tool-sets and platforms. Most devs beside enterprise IT departments use open source languages for web deveopment.…

Hows that compiled though? Most iis installisations don't send idenditifying information.

I know if you nmap our website which uses iis it returns as something else because of our load balancer.

Re: 2015: The year that Microsoft started getting the benefit of the doubt

#167

Post by raesene9 »

hueving wrote: post #108
raesene9 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think ordinary users should try to disable all the cloud based features of their OS? Surely a lot of the features they want (e.g. Google Now, Siri, Cortana) are based on the OS provider knowing about the users and having information about them. If your threat model is that the OS provider is hostile, no amount of changing of settings will protect you from their actions...

>If your threat model is that the OS provider is hostile, no amount of changing of settings will protect you from their actions... No, the threat model is that centrally collected data will be pilfered by the government or the company itself. If it's just not collected in the first place the temptation won't be there to abuse it. It's like saying, "if your threat model is that the government is hostile, there is noth…

And on that basis all modern consumer focused OS' are about as bad as each other, they all rely on cloud features which gather data about the user and hold it centrally.

It's why I'm so puzzled that people jump on MS specifically for this, Google have been doing all the same stuff for years and no-one seems to care.

That said on your lines that people wouldn't cross, I'm afraid I have not confidence in either of your examples. The US gov. has totured people for years, I see no reason to believe they wouldn't do it to family members if they thought it would meet their goals, and MS would exfiltrate data if provided an appropriately authorised requirement by the US government...

Re: 2015: The year that Microsoft started getting the benefit of the doubt

#168

Post by raesene9 »

sroerick wrote: post #103
raesene9 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think ordinary users should try to disable all the cloud based features of their OS? Surely a lot of the features they want (e.g. Google Now, Siri, Cortana) are based on the OS provider knowing about the users and having information about them. If your threat model is that the OS provider is hostile, no amount of changing of settings will protect you from their actions...

"Our research shows that users WANT these features that require us to constantly monitor microphones for certain phrases." Maybe the OS provider should stop being hostile.

I don't think they're being hostile, I think they're providing features they think people want.

Personally I hate this kind of feature and try to actively avoid products which have it, however I feel I am in a minority of general consumers in that feeling.

Re: 2015: The year that Microsoft started getting the benefit of the doubt

#169

Post by raesene9 »

Silhouette wrote: post #158
raesene9 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think ordinary users should try to disable all the cloud based features of their OS? Surely a lot of the features they want (e.g. Google Now, Siri, Cortana) are based on the OS provider knowing about the users and having information about them. If your threat model is that the OS provider is hostile, no amount of changing of settings will protect you from their actions...

Why do you think ordinary users should try to disable all the cloud based features of their OS? Surely a lot of the features they want (e.g. Google Now, Siri, Cortana) The thing is, almost every piece of research I've seen from independent sources suggests that most users don't really want or care about these digital personal assistant gimmicks. Once you got past the hype, this was a point a few different articles ma…

I hope that you're correct, as then you would expect the market to correct the mistake and drop the features, as they don't get used

Re: 2015: The year that Microsoft started getting the benefit of the doubt

#170

Post by raesene9 »

jlarocco wrote: post #119
raesene9 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think ordinary users should try to disable all the cloud based features of their OS? Surely a lot of the features they want (e.g. Google Now, Siri, Cortana) are based on the OS provider knowing about the users and having information about them. If your threat model is that the OS provider is hostile, no amount of changing of settings will protect you from their actions...

Your phrasing is a little odd. Personally, I don't think users should necessarily turn those features off, but if they don't want to use the feature, I don't think they should be forced to keep it on, either. I don't see why it can't be opt-in. > If your threat model is that the OS provider is hostile, no amount of changing of settings will protect you from their actions... IMO, it has less to do with the OS provider…

I don't think that users are forced to keep the features on are they (definitely I had no problems disabling them when installin Win10)

On defaults I would prefer it to be opt-in but I know exactly why it isn't. Software vendors want you to use the features they develop so that you'll be more involved in their ecosystem, if they're off by default chances are you won't turn them on, which defeats the purpose.

Gotta say I don't see your resource point, do you have any evidence that these features have an appreciable impact on the average system?

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