2015: The year that Microsoft started getting the benefit of the doubt • Hacker News Board

Re: 2015: The year that Microsoft started getting the benefit of the doubt

#91

Post by Silhouette » Mon, Dec 28, 2015, 6:24 PM UTC

frik wrote: post #80

lstamour wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can be turned off in version 1511 for Enterprise and Education editions, under Group Policy: https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/mt577208(v=vs.85... See screenshot and guide at http://www.ghacks.net/2015/07/30/windows-10-and-privacy/ Alternatively, disable this service if concerned: http://www.ghacks.net/2015/11/19/microsoft-rena-and-telemetr...

All can be turned off in Windows 10 Enterprise LTSB (Long Term Servicing Branch) - it's very expensive and not sold to consumer nor small business at all. But think about your doctor, your lawyer, etc. many smaller business, cheaper Windows 10 editon (non LTSB) they will unintentionally leak your confidential personal data. You say such PCs shouldn't be online at all? But they are and many of them run on Windows. Sca…

You say [doctors', lawyers' and many smaller businesses'] PCs shouldn't be online at all? But they are and many of them run on Windows. Scary.

And almost certainly very illegal in a lot of places. Not only do you have whatever routine data protection rules apply, but in cases like medical data or legally privileged information there are higher standards required in many jurisdictions as well.

Re: 2015: The year that Microsoft started getting the benefit of the doubt

#92

Post by raesene9 » Mon, Dec 28, 2015, 6:24 PM UTC

deanclatworthy wrote: post #5

They've done some brilliant things for developers this year, but sadly shipped a giant spyware operating system at the same time. From what I've read people are still trying to determine everything it's calling home.

What makes you feel that Windows 10 is any more of a "spyware OS" than Google Android?

Re: 2015: The year that Microsoft started getting the benefit of the doubt

#93

Post by niuzeta » Mon, Dec 28, 2015, 6:24 PM UTC

deanclatworthy wrote: post #5

They've done some brilliant things for developers this year, but sadly shipped a giant spyware operating system at the same time. From what I've read people are still trying to determine everything it's calling home.

I'm still rather happy with 7, and I don't think I'll make a switch. If only they would stop pestering me to update...

It's stipulated that 7 will be the new XP, and 2015 may be the first year to start XP-ization of 7.

Re: 2015: The year that Microsoft started getting the benefit of the doubt

#94

Post by melted » Mon, Dec 28, 2015, 6:25 PM UTC

Grishnakh wrote: post #65

flyingbuttress wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here with a Surface Pro 4. Lots of little bugs that I'd never expect in an Apple device. Weird keyboard issues, random screen shutoff, DPI issues, etc. Luckily, Windows Updates have been fixing the issues a handful at a time, but this means that initial impressions will suffer. Hopefully they get their QA issues sorted out.

Hopefully not.

Why not? A strong premium hardware manufacturer is needed pretty badly right now in the PC industry. The last one standing is Lenovo, and most of its product line is shameful garbage. When manufacturers compete on merit, everyone wins.

Re: 2015: The year that Microsoft started getting the benefit of the doubt

#95

Post by raesene9 » Mon, Dec 28, 2015, 6:30 PM UTC

frik wrote: post #52

ifdefdebug wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's easy to run Windows 10 without any calling home at all. Just don't use a Microsoft account. Just chose custom configurations during setup. Doesn't a default Android phone also do a lot of calling home? And Apple phones? Why is it so special when it's Windows?

> It's easy to run Windows 10 without any calling home at all. Not true at all! It's impossible, without a hardware firewall. Their kernel network driver whitelists several microsoft domains and IP address ranges. What's worse Microsoft back-ported that phone-home crap and ships them as updates to Windows 7 and 8.x (of course the coincidentally stopped writting descriptions for their Windows updates). Not even mentio…

Why do you think ordinary users should try to disable all the cloud based features of their OS? Surely a lot of the features they want (e.g. Google Now, Siri, Cortana) are based on the OS provider knowing about the users and having information about them.

If your threat model is that the OS provider is hostile, no amount of changing of settings will protect you from their actions...

Re: 2015: The year that Microsoft started getting the benefit of the doubt

#96

Post by sz4kerto » Mon, Dec 28, 2015, 6:33 PM UTC

meagain20000 wrote: post #23

valarauca1 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I feel like the media wants to paint a comeback story a la Apple a lot more than one actually exists. In terms of an Apple come back story that's blatantly false. Microsoft was never in dire financial straights since practically the mid-80's. The Benefit of the Doubt is more because of their attitude to the OSS community. For nearly its entire life Micro$oft has been seen as the prime enemy of the OSS community, a r…

I would not happily return to them. In fact, I see no reason why. To me, they are still in their same embrace, extend, extinguish mode only that now their cycle is a lot longer. It could even be that nadella really thinks that he will always be in the embrace and extend phase. My gut feeling is that as soon as it becomes hugely beneficial to them somebody within the company will advocate for the extinguish phase. Don…

"Don't trust Microsoft. It is in their DNA to screw you."

Companies don't have a DNA. Humans do. Companies change as employees come and go, as the environment changes, etc. Don't antropomorphize them.

Companies act in their financial interest. Very rarely not, but mostly yes. I don't know why is it so hard to accept that.

Re: 2015: The year that Microsoft started getting the benefit of the doubt

#97

Post by lstamour » Mon, Dec 28, 2015, 6:34 PM UTC

criddell wrote: post #78

lstamour wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can be turned off in version 1511 for Enterprise and Education editions, under Group Policy: https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/mt577208(v=vs.85... See screenshot and guide at http://www.ghacks.net/2015/07/30/windows-10-and-privacy/ Alternatively, disable this service if concerned: http://www.ghacks.net/2015/11/19/microsoft-rena-and-telemetr...

I asked at the Microsoft store for an Enterprise edition of Windows and they told me it's not sold to consumers (they tried to tell me I want Windows 10 Professional). I'm not a student or a teacher, so I don't think I can buy the education edition either.

You need 250+ users for Software Assurance through Enterprise Licensing programs: http://download.microsoft.com/download/1/F/5/1F5357DD-F7C8-4...

However, through the MOSP (for 5-250, now called "Microsoft Online Services"), you can get Windows Intune with Software Assurance for Windows for $11/user (at least when it was announced), which includes Software Assurance, which then includes a copy of Windows 10 Enterprise (to upgrade/install on PCs for licensed users) as well as management tools.

There's a way to add Office 365 on a per-user basis to your Intune subscription as well, as long as you maintain annual commitments (or some gibberish like that). I'm not entirely clear on the details, this is why Microsoft usually has folks call in for pricing and such. But I hear it's easy to manage.

There's two methods of enterprise/education licensing, per user and per machine. Home/Pro are sold per-machine only, with varying features. See license agreements for details ;-)

Ultimately, you can disable most/all of the Windows 10 spying yourself without special editions of Windows, they just make it easier for folks paying the big bucks.

Re: 2015: The year that Microsoft started getting the benefit of the doubt

#98

Post by sz4kerto » Mon, Dec 28, 2015, 6:35 PM UTC

oldnan wrote: post #51

soared wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you honestly expect them to open source software that earns them significant revenue? They are a business trying to make money.

I don't, and neither does anyone else. The point is that they remain a proprietary software company at their core and will likely remain that way.

None of the megacompanies open-source their cash cows. Red Hat is an exception to some extent, but they're not that big.

Google, Apple, Microsoft -- they all make money based on closed-source software. What they open-source is only the stuff that does not give them competitive edge. You can't download the source Google Search, iOS or Windows.

(I'm not arguing with you, btw.)

Re: 2015: The year that Microsoft started getting the benefit of the doubt

#99

Post by paulojreis » Mon, Dec 28, 2015, 6:37 PM UTC

deanclatworthy wrote: post #5

They've done some brilliant things for developers this year, but sadly shipped a giant spyware operating system at the same time. From what I've read people are still trying to determine everything it's calling home.

They were always big on doing "brilliant" things for developers, at least since my career started (around 2006). I went to a few Microsoft developer events and it was really obvious that they cared a lot about developer experience. End-user experience, on the other hand, was "less brilliant".

Re: 2015: The year that Microsoft started getting the benefit of the doubt

#100

Post by lstamour » Mon, Dec 28, 2015, 6:44 PM UTC

frik wrote: post #80

lstamour wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can be turned off in version 1511 for Enterprise and Education editions, under Group Policy: https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/mt577208(v=vs.85... See screenshot and guide at http://www.ghacks.net/2015/07/30/windows-10-and-privacy/ Alternatively, disable this service if concerned: http://www.ghacks.net/2015/11/19/microsoft-rena-and-telemetr...

All can be turned off in Windows 10 Enterprise LTSB (Long Term Servicing Branch) - it's very expensive and not sold to consumer nor small business at all. But think about your doctor, your lawyer, etc. many smaller business, cheaper Windows 10 editon (non LTSB) they will unintentionally leak your confidential personal data. You say such PCs shouldn't be online at all? But they are and many of them run on Windows. Sca…

Technically the bit about it not being sold to small business is not true. You can get LTSB through Software Assurance through Windows Intune licensing on a per-user basis through Microsoft Online Services for companies of 5-250 people.

And you don't need LTSB or Enterprise/Education SKUs to turn them off, you just get more convenient toggles there. Ultimately you're responsible for what services run on your computer, and your computer's configuration. If you don't trust the OS manufacturer, as someone else pointed out, why are you running their code in the first place? ;-)