Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

2015: The year that Microsoft started getting the benefit of the doubt

arstechnica.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 178 posts

Re: 2015: The year that Microsoft started getting the benefit of the doubt

#71

Post by cesnja »

electronvolt wrote: post #40
exprI wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Little criticism, followed by a huge compliment. Usually shilling. Considered “harder” by whom? Windows enthusiasts have certainly considered Windows to be more sophisticated since the first public version of NT, and more secure by XP SP2, at the very latest.

(Note: I work for Microsoft, although not on the OS. I mostly use Debian and Ubuntu at home for things other than gaming, and know a bit about security--but I'm a bit rusty since I wasn't following it from 2010-2014 and haven't really thought about how to attack things since 2008-2009. These are my opinions/thoughts and don't represent the company I work for at all.) Windows has been harder to attack than OS X since…

SELinux isn't enabled by default on many distros because it's not the only kernel security module out there. There's also AppArmor and some others.

Re: 2015: The year that Microsoft started getting the benefit of the doubt

#72

Post by lstamour »

frik wrote: post #52
ifdefdebug wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's easy to run Windows 10 without any calling home at all. Just don't use a Microsoft account. Just chose custom configurations during setup. Doesn't a default Android phone also do a lot of calling home? And Apple phones? Why is it so special when it's Windows?

> It's easy to run Windows 10 without any calling home at all. Not true at all! It's impossible, without a hardware firewall. Their kernel network driver whitelists several microsoft domains and IP address ranges. What's worse Microsoft back-ported that phone-home crap and ships them as updates to Windows 7 and 8.x (of course the coincidentally stopped writting descriptions for their Windows updates). Not even mentio…

It can be turned off in version 1511 for Enterprise and Education editions, under Group Policy: https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/mt577208(v=vs.85...

See screenshot and guide at http://www.ghacks.net/2015/07/30/windows-10-and-privacy/

Alternatively, disable this service if concerned: http://www.ghacks.net/2015/11/19/microsoft-rena-and-telemetr...

Re: 2015: The year that Microsoft started getting the benefit of the doubt

#73

Post by recursive »

Grishnakh wrote: post #59
ifdefdebug wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's easy to run Windows 10 without any calling home at all. Just don't use a Microsoft account. Just chose custom configurations during setup. Doesn't a default Android phone also do a lot of calling home? And Apple phones? Why is it so special when it's Windows?

Windows PCs are not used for the same thing as smartphones. Most people don't have all their critical financial or business information on their phones; that's what PCs are for ("real work"). Most people probably don't care too much if Google knows that you're using Tinder.

Android and Apple Pay suggest other intentions.

Re: 2015: The year that Microsoft started getting the benefit of the doubt

#74

Post by sz4kerto »

deanclatworthy wrote: post #5

They've done some brilliant things for developers this year, but sadly shipped a giant spyware operating system at the same time. From what I've read people are still trying to determine everything it's calling home.

It just got closer to the other leading operating systems (iOS and Android). They claim that they need telemetry, which I find reasonable from a technical standpoint. The lack of opt-out is annoying, however, given Microsoft's bad public image I think people would opt out in masses if they provided this option.

So I don't think the data they send back is 'spyware' in the sense that they want to know more about you and then sell it or use it to sell other stuff to you. But I don't have proof. :)

Re: 2015: The year that Microsoft started getting the benefit of the doubt

#75

Post by lstamour »

Zikes wrote: post #68
Nelkins wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that the outrage over Windows 10 seems a little...inconsistent. For Android users (could be on iOS too, not sure), open up Maps. Open up the options menu in the upper left hand corner and choose "Your timeline." This will literally show you every place you have traveled, WHETHER OR NOT YOU EVEN SEARCHED FOR A PARTICULAR LOCATION (i.e. it just shows where you've been walking around). You can delete the data an…

Location History is opt-in, and Google sends you frequent email reminders that you are opted in. I have email reminders in my gmail account dating back to 2011 when it was still called Latitude. If you want to see this info and/or enable/disable it: https://www.google.com/maps/timeline

Except you opt-in by agreeing to use Google Now, e.g. http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/05/google-now-for-androi...

I'm sure the implications of this isn't obvious for most people, just as express settings in Windows aren't obvious.

Re: 2015: The year that Microsoft started getting the benefit of the doubt

#76

Post by petke »

martythemaniak wrote: post #4
1123581321 wrote: post #2

I agree with all the examples mentioned in this article, but I think the beginning of 2014 was the year public opinion started to change. Nadella came out of the gate strong in early 2014. Just before that, Mike Krahulik's post about the Surface Pro 2 at the end of 2013 was a turning point for the perception of the product by people who prefer iOS/Android/Linux. ( http://www.penny-arcade.com/news/post/2013/10/28/surf…

Public opinion changes when mainstream entities (people/organizations) validate something new. Microsoft has been coming out with good stuff for several years now, but that opinion has been restricted to a subset of technophiles. If in 2014 you told someone about tablets and styluses, you'd either get a dumb look or the standard Jobs like ("you're doing in wrong") So what happened in 2015? Well, Apple validated (copi…

For me it was about 2012.

Herb Sutter (at MS) wrote his famous "Welcome to the jungle" article (http://herbsutter.com/welcome-to-the-jungle).

It seemed if anyone was adapting, their platform, development tools, and languages to match the revolution in hardware, it was MS.

(Given this revolution, on the language side MS changed focus from managed languages to the previously neglected native C++)

Re: 2015: The year that Microsoft started getting the benefit of the doubt

#77

Post by tptacek »

vox_mollis wrote: post #58
lstamour wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can avoid it by using AES-XTS now, same as on Linux and TrueCrypt: http://www.winbeta.org/news/windows-10-version-1511-gets-new... See also: http://sockpuppet.org/blog/2014/04/30/you-dont-want-xts/

Oh wow, I wasn't aware of this inclusion. Thanks.

AES-XTS is also not authenticated. The whole "diffuser" thing is a pretty silly controversy.

Re: 2015: The year that Microsoft started getting the benefit of the doubt

#78

Post by criddell »

lstamour wrote: post #72
frik wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's easy to run Windows 10 without any calling home at all. Not true at all! It's impossible, without a hardware firewall. Their kernel network driver whitelists several microsoft domains and IP address ranges. What's worse Microsoft back-ported that phone-home crap and ships them as updates to Windows 7 and 8.x (of course the coincidentally stopped writting descriptions for their Windows updates). Not even mentio…

It can be turned off in version 1511 for Enterprise and Education editions, under Group Policy: https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/mt577208(v=vs.85... See screenshot and guide at http://www.ghacks.net/2015/07/30/windows-10-and-privacy/ Alternatively, disable this service if concerned: http://www.ghacks.net/2015/11/19/microsoft-rena-and-telemetr...

I asked at the Microsoft store for an Enterprise edition of Windows and they told me it's not sold to consumers (they tried to tell me I want Windows 10 Professional).

I'm not a student or a teacher, so I don't think I can buy the education edition either.

Re: 2015: The year that Microsoft started getting the benefit of the doubt

#79

Post by flubert »

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #36
exprI wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Little criticism, followed by a huge compliment. Usually shilling. Considered “harder” by whom? Windows enthusiasts have certainly considered Windows to be more sophisticated since the first public version of NT, and more secure by XP SP2, at the very latest.

>> Considered “harder” by whom? theqruq had this in one of his slides. I'll try to find the link. sorry I do not know the meaning of shilling in this context, English is not my native language.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill

Re: 2015: The year that Microsoft started getting the benefit of the doubt

#80

Post by frik »

lstamour wrote: post #72
frik wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's easy to run Windows 10 without any calling home at all. Not true at all! It's impossible, without a hardware firewall. Their kernel network driver whitelists several microsoft domains and IP address ranges. What's worse Microsoft back-ported that phone-home crap and ships them as updates to Windows 7 and 8.x (of course the coincidentally stopped writting descriptions for their Windows updates). Not even mentio…

It can be turned off in version 1511 for Enterprise and Education editions, under Group Policy: https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/mt577208(v=vs.85... See screenshot and guide at http://www.ghacks.net/2015/07/30/windows-10-and-privacy/ Alternatively, disable this service if concerned: http://www.ghacks.net/2015/11/19/microsoft-rena-and-telemetr...

All can be turned off in Windows 10 Enterprise LTSB (Long Term Servicing Branch) - it's very expensive and not sold to consumer nor small business at all.

But think about your doctor, your lawyer, etc. many smaller business, cheaper Windows 10 editon (non LTSB) they will unintentionally leak your confidential personal data. You say such PCs shouldn't be online at all? But they are and many of them run on Windows. Scary.

Post reply on HN