Live data from Hacker News

Former Columbia House insiders explain the shady math behind “8 CDs for a penny”

avclub.com

21–30 of 46 posts

Re: Former Columbia House insiders explain the shady math behind “8 CDs for a penny”

#21
A couple of quotes from the OA

>> “You’re not supposed to be enjoying yourself this much,” even though we were incredibly productive. Is it possible to have fun, go home at 6pm, and still be productive any more?

>> Especially looking at my younger friends in their late 20s, I feel bad for them, because they’re grinding. They’re working their asses off. They’re working so much harder than we did, and they’re barely having time for their own projects. One thing about the fat, Clintonian, CD money years, is that in New York, you could still skim off some of the industry money and be an artist. Is this just an attack of the Good Old Days syndrome or is it evidence of a trend that will eventually cause the ossification of our cities?

PS: UK: Book of the month style 'clubs' had books in 'club edition' bindings to differentiate them. They did that default option is you bought that month's book deal as well. My parents did it for a bit, then stopped it.

Re: Former Columbia House insiders explain the shady math behind “8 CDs for a penny”

#22
post #2

Did the article ever get to why Columbia House failed? I gave up due to the obnoxious ad load ( eleven external sites according to Ghostery), and that obnoxious Timescapes moving ad (which reloaded from the beginning with every text scroll , which means every 1-3 paragraphs) slowed it down to the point of being unreadable.

It failed for the same reason that the music industry failed. People stopped buying CDs, so loss-leading divisions were eliminated.

Re: Former Columbia House insiders explain the shady math behind “8 CDs for a penny”

#23
post #2

Did the article ever get to why Columbia House failed? I gave up due to the obnoxious ad load ( eleven external sites according to Ghostery), and that obnoxious Timescapes moving ad (which reloaded from the beginning with every text scroll , which means every 1-3 paragraphs) slowed it down to the point of being unreadable.

It failed for the same reason that the music industry failed. People stopped buying CDs, so loss-leading divisions were eliminated.

The music industry failed?

Re: Former Columbia House insiders explain the shady math behind “8 CDs for a penny”

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It failed for the same reason that the music industry failed. People stopped buying CDs, so loss-leading divisions were eliminated.

The music industry failed?

More or less, when revenues drop 50% ... things change, have a point?

Re: Former Columbia House insiders explain the shady math behind “8 CDs for a penny”

#25

From the article: "There is an alternative to [Spotify], in getting outside of it, but only if we have net neutrality. If they really fuck with net neutrality, then I don’t know what independent musicians are going to do. Right now, you can go up on Bandcamp and you can put out your record, and they take their 15 percent cut, and you can make a fair amount of money selling a couple hundred CDs. You can do okay. But i…

> It's a ridiculous conclusion to draw.

Not really. My guess is you're young enough that you never had to deal with AT&T in their prime. Packet prioritization is the very beginning of what carriers would like to happen. But once they get it, each succeeding step gets easier.

The basic view of a dominant carrier is that they should get a piece of everything that passes through their network. Everything. And because they're enormous, they really only want to deal with other enormous entities. It's most convenient for them to skim 30% of everything if they deal with just a few other players who are also monopoly or oligopoly players.

Try to imagine what the Internet would be like if Ticketmaster were in charge. Or if you'd like to read the history, When Wizards Stay Up Late, an origin story of the Internet, gives some of the flavor of how much AT&T squeezed everything.

Or you could look at the history of the answering machine. It was originally invented by AT&T, but they suppressed the invention out of fear that it would cut down on call revenue. [1] They fought tooth and nail against letting other companies sell them; it wasn't until 1956 you were even allowed to strap something to your phone [2], and they prevented people making electrical connections to the telephone network until 1968 [3].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Answering_machine

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hush-A-Phone_Corp._v._United_S...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carterfone#Landmark_regulatory...

Re: Former Columbia House insiders explain the shady math behind “8 CDs for a penny”

#26

Yes, good memories. I was a member of Columbia and BMG clubs many times over the years, often with multiple memberships at a time for a decade or so in/after high school. Note: this article does not explain the math at all, it is mostly about paying rent in Manhattan. Despite what the article implies, it was easy to figure out if you can use a calculator and was an awesome deal. Add up the cost for all discs total, t…

> Then you'd cancel as soon as you tired of the mailings. I never knew why they did it but I didn't care.

My guess: you were an unusual customer. I suspect the more typical case was somebody who never canceled and was not very disciplined about rejecting the selection of the month. So maybe they broke even or lost money on you. But they'd do well on the typical consumer, so it was fine by them.

Re: Former Columbia House insiders explain the shady math behind “8 CDs for a penny”

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The music industry failed?

More or less, when revenues drop 50% ... things change, have a point?

Shrinkage is not failure. I know plenty of pro music biz people.

Re: Former Columbia House insiders explain the shady math behind “8 CDs for a penny”

#28
post #2

Did the article ever get to why Columbia House failed? I gave up due to the obnoxious ad load ( eleven external sites according to Ghostery), and that obnoxious Timescapes moving ad (which reloaded from the beginning with every text scroll , which means every 1-3 paragraphs) slowed it down to the point of being unreadable.

The article talked a lot about how for many people Columbia House was their main access to buying music. My guess is that they made their money on people who kept subscribing because it was either the easy way or the only way for them to get new music. But between internet-enabled mail order for CDs and the later rise of things like Napster, Columbia House no longer solved a problem for most music fans.

Re: Former Columbia House insiders explain the shady math behind “8 CDs for a penny”

#29

From the article: "There is an alternative to [Spotify], in getting outside of it, but only if we have net neutrality. If they really fuck with net neutrality, then I don’t know what independent musicians are going to do. Right now, you can go up on Bandcamp and you can put out your record, and they take their 15 percent cut, and you can make a fair amount of money selling a couple hundred CDs. You can do okay. But i…

People like streaming, and without net neutrality providers can inject jitter and loss into all streaming services (even ones you've set up yourself on e.g. AWS) that haven't paid the protection money.

Re: Former Columbia House insiders explain the shady math behind “8 CDs for a penny”

#30

From the article: "There is an alternative to [Spotify], in getting outside of it, but only if we have net neutrality. If they really fuck with net neutrality, then I don’t know what independent musicians are going to do. Right now, you can go up on Bandcamp and you can put out your record, and they take their 15 percent cut, and you can make a fair amount of money selling a couple hundred CDs. You can do okay. But i…

It's not a ridiculous conclusion, its reality. Theres a lot of people who will not pay for the internet if they can get Facebook, WhatsApp, wikipedia, and BBC for free. That's what internet.org is doing in India, and it will crush services like bandcamp that exist because of an open internet.

Or t-mobile's free streaming plans - you pay for a couple hundred megs of data and your Spotify doesn't count towards that quota, so you can't download a bandcamp album because your plan doesn't allow for it. This isn't some crazy future we're imagining. This is the internet right now.

Post reply on HN