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When a Unicorn Startup Stumbles, Its Employees Get Hurt

nytimes.com

61–70 of 274 posts

Re: When a Unicorn Startup Stumbles, Its Employees Get Hurt

#61

Regarding the fact that the employees had to pay tax on what turned out to be worthless shares: They could have avoided this by waiting to exercise their options on the eve of the liquidity event. In this case there would have been no risk. But they exercised earlier presumably to start the clock on long term capital gains treatment for the stock they received when they exercised. They took risk they didn't need to t…

> They could have avoided this by waiting to exercise their options...

The article refers to "stock grants" and refers to the fact that "Top sales employees were awarded with annual bonuses of 20,000 shares of common stock".

IANAL but AFAIK, receipt of stock grants would trigger an income tax liability on the value of the shares at the time they were granted.

Tax treatment of stock grants and options is very complicated and so dependent on details that it seems somewhat unfair to jump to any conclusions based on assumptions which are almost certainly incorrect.

Re: When a Unicorn Startup Stumbles, Its Employees Get Hurt

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this strikes me as very Enron-ish throughout.

Interesting. In what ways? Enron was a public company that committed fraud.

The management pushing the stock and painting a rosy picture while behind the scenes the ship was sinking.

The employees putting everything they had (and then some) into a single stock from their employer.

I don't know if there was criminal behavior involved but an imbalance of information was in play that cost the employees everything and then some.

Re: When a Unicorn Startup Stumbles, Its Employees Get Hurt

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While that does suck... they exercised early for the capital gains tax treatment. If there was no risk involved, it doesn't really deserve a lower tax rate.

in most standard startup contracts you are forced to either exercise when leaving the startup (30-90days) or forfeit them

Which is to say nothing of the fact that it's still an investment in a company, and carries with it risk, including a full loss.

Anyone implying that owning equity in a company has any guaranteed payout, even on acquisition, is being intentionally misleading, I think.

Re: When a Unicorn Startup Stumbles, Its Employees Get Hurt

#64

I imagine this is going to be a lot worse now with unicorn craze. It seems like to some, any liquidation terms were acceptable to get to the $1b valuation mark.

Indeed. Smart, young companies are refusing preferred share investments and are willing to keep their valuation lower because of that. It's true that you're selling a larger portion of your future for less money in many ways, but you protect the founders and original investors as well as the employees too.

Huge growth is important but it's also important to be smart about it. Selling a part of your company for a bit less if often better than mortgaging the common shares.

Re: When a Unicorn Startup Stumbles, Its Employees Get Hurt

#65
By joining a late stage (vs early stage) startup as an employee, you are trading execution risk for valuation risk.

At an early stage startup, your shares are essentially free to purchase - especially if you join a company which hasn't had a formal external valuation event (like a fundraise) yet. All your risk is around the startup evolving into a successful business with a high value.

Join a late-stage startup, and most of the execution risk is gone. But the company may already have an artificially high value attached - so you have a lot of risk that your shares end up being worth significantly less than you paid for them.

The real unicorn, for an employee, is a middle- to late-stage company which has successfully executed, is growing, and ideally hasn't had any formal external valuation events. There your shares are cheap to buy and extremely likely to increase in value.

Re: When a Unicorn Startup Stumbles, Its Employees Get Hurt

#66
post #29
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only those who early exercise, or exercise their stock as it vests. They did this to try and optimize for long-term capital gains. For most employees who leave their option grants as options, there is nothing to worry about. When you are given a grant of stock options, you can sometimes ask the company to let you exercise it early, and vest the shares instead of the options. If you do this when the fair market value…

Correct me if I'm wrong, but even with an early exercise (or an exercise of vested options) where the valuation matches the strike price, that employee would still have had to personally fork over the amount needed to purchase the underlying shares. In the scenario described in the article, they've still lost a substantial chunk of money if the valuation is now a fraction of the strike price. Secondly, while capital…

> that employee would still have had to personally fork over the amount needed to purchase the underlying shares

Then what is the difference over just buying the shares outright as opposed to exercising options?

My understanding has always been that exercising options means getting a benefit (the shares) which has a value (the strike price) and you subsequently pay tax on that value.

Re: When a Unicorn Startup Stumbles, Its Employees Get Hurt

#67
post #41

Is there some other industry where, when a company stumbles, its employees don't get hurt? I live in Michigan, and when the car industry "stumbled" everyone I locally know at least knew someone who got hit, at the very very least with long-term stagnant wages even as their responsibilities amped up to cover the missing people, and they were the ones who came out relatively unscathed. I mean, the details of the articl…

At least with the auto industry, the unions were able to offer some protections for the worker. How many programmers belong to a union?

Re: When a Unicorn Startup Stumbles, Its Employees Get Hurt

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few hundred grand net absolutely is real wealth. To anybody really. But how many people are seeing a few hundred grand after-taxes (after taxes!)?

Over a 4 year grant? This is just a guess, I don't have the IRS database at my hands. Maybe $200-300k after-tax sounds more reasonable? Like I said above -- "with some luck"

You have not yet actually made a guess you've just kept asserting that "a lot of money" is "a lot of money" and I agree. A lot of money is a lot money. I just think that modulo nobody is actually seeing a lot of money from start-up employee equity.

Re: When a Unicorn Startup Stumbles, Its Employees Get Hurt

#69
post #2

Ms. Wyatt introduced BlackBerry’s chief, John S. Chen, who winkingly apologized for how his deal makers had driven Good’s final sale price down to $425 million, less than half of the company’s $1.1 billion private valuation. I've never been a CEO or acquired a company but I think there probably aren't too many worse things you could say to the employees of a company that you've just acquired.

The "deal makers" didn't drive down the value of the company. Good did it themselves. They were hemorrhaging money. They did not have the stronger position at the negotiation table.

Re: When a Unicorn Startup Stumbles, Its Employees Get Hurt

#70
I remember clearly when I was in a similar situation with the sale of a company I helped start in 1999. All this gain on paper which required (because of the Alternative Minimum Tax rule) that I pay taxes on gains I had not realized. And then later realizing an actual loss. And the decade afterwards of getting $3,000/year that I could claim against my taxes.

The only reason I'm not still claiming my $3,000 a year is that we had some gains that could be offset by those losses in 2007 and 2008. Of course there are the much higher fees to have your taxes prepared.

I agree with the Times that it is the non-executive employees who get the worst of it, both because it may be the only investment they have (other than their 401k) and they may not have any experience in managing risk.

For example, the article mentions, and my own experience mimics, that the executives are in a bind when it comes to discussing company performance and prospects. Legal risks abound if they mislead and existential risks abound if they demoralize the company. It would be especially problematic when the company has started the IPO process as Good had.

Then there is the greed factor that comes in on everyone's part. The board turns down an $825M offer because they feel it is their duty, given they expect the company is worth more than that. Employees don't cash out some of their holding at $3/share expecting a bigger IPO lift. Both angry because nobody came from the future to tell them, hey this is the best offer you are ever going to get for this stock, take it. And so they "ride" the value down and get angrier and angrier but its hard to know at whom.

When this happened to me, I was holding 10,000 shares of Sun stock that had been $60 a share in 2000, that was going down and down and down. It later reverse split 3:1 (so down to 3,333 shares) and sold for $9.50 a share to Oracle or about $32,000. I was really angry at myself for "losing" so much money. Of course it wasn't that I had "lost" the money, I never had it, it was all on paper, I just hadn't converted at the time because I was hoping to convert when it was even "more". Or put another way, my greed kept me from selling something which could have paid off my mortgage at the time.

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