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As Downloads Take Over, a Turning Point for the Video Game Industry

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Re: As Downloads Take Over, a Turning Point for the Video Game Industry

#51

Post by pandaman »

moskie wrote: post #13

I think a harbinger of this was the fact that the latest console generation did not come with an upgrade in (physical) game medium. Previously, each console generation came with newer cartridges, then with newer disc formats (CD, then DVD, then HD-DVD / Blu Ray). But this generation just stuck with Blu Ray. That signaled to me that this may very well be the last generation to even support physical media. If this cons…

Are you talking about just Sony consoles? Because otherwise your observation is false: Microsoft Xbox One, for example, got an upgrade from DVD to BluRay as same as did Wii. And in previous generations both did not get any upgrades.

The reason Sony upgrades media on its consoles is that Sony is a holding that also holds companies developing the said media and companies distributing movies/music on the same media. It's a cross-promotion.

Re: As Downloads Take Over, a Turning Point for the Video Game Industry

#52

Post by voltagex_ »

bsilvereagle wrote: post #35
shmerl wrote: post #24

I really hope digital downloads will take over. It will reduce the influence of retail distributors who like to set skewed regional pricing that in result affects even prices in digital stores. It is often simply a rip off (ask Australians what they think about it). Surprisingly, that didn't quite happen yet. Some games like the Witcher 3 reported[1] a major percentage to be retail sales (almost 75%). I expected it t…

> I really hope digital downloads will take over. There are lots of people on capped satellite/3G/"water tower" internet who enjoy gaming that are going to be cut out of the market if consoles go to a pure digital distribution system. Additionally, gamers in very remote locations (submarines, remote foreign villages, etc) couldn't have the latest releases mailed to them. Somehow they'd have to find a broadband connec…

It's a "problem" even for people on wired net connections.

I've got ~10/1 ADSL (nominally 8 megabits on a good day). This console generation is really testing the limits of my bandwidth - Halo 5 is 60+ GB, and it doesn't help when you've got errors like http://www.iinet.net.au/status/4438711 happening. 60GB would take 16 hours which is overnight-and-a-bit.

Unfortunately the One is not fault tolerant at all. I'll turn it on in the morning and it won't have started at all (despite having the settings right for "download while in low power mode).

I can't imagine using the Xbox One as a download-only console if you're on anything less than true unlimited data (I did 400GB of XBox/Netflix content alone last month).

I should put this in a blog post at some point but I'm seeing this more and more from Microsoft and Google - assume everyone's on 100MB+ connections.

e.g.

* OneDrive has no LAN sync, placeholder files have been removed so you can't even have your files available "on demand"

* Google removing SD card support left right and centre.

Re: As Downloads Take Over, a Turning Point for the Video Game Industry

#53

Post by Houshalter »

rangibaby wrote: post #48
Houshalter wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it has always hurt developers. Games could be cheaper or have larger budgets without Gamestop taking such a huge cut. The worrying thing about digital is it could be vastly easier to trade used games. There is no worrying about scratched discs, and you don't get pennies on the dollar for the trade. You could just play used games endlessly without ever spending more than an initial investment.

They are already cheap and have AAA games have budgets comparable to mid-tier Hollywood movies. Not being able to sell something you bought seems strange to me.

I said cheaper and larger. And that goes especially for smaller games. PC indie games would probably hurt the worst from this. Since I imagine there are far more used copies floating around than people actually playing them. When supply is greater than demand, the price goes towards zero.

It's not really strange, it's been this way for years. When have you ever been able to sell software you downloaded? Neither Apple or Google let you sell used apps, steam has never allowed used game sales, etc.

And it makes way more sense this way. You are not buying a physical object that took labor and resources to produce. A physical object that would go to waste otherwise. You are buying a bunch of bits which can be copied endlessly. There's no depreciation over time, no downside to buying used over new. No personal attachment to a specific object when you can just download it again when you want to play it. No middlemen to take a cut out of the trade so that you can just buy and sell it at exactly the same price.

Re: As Downloads Take Over, a Turning Point for the Video Game Industry

#54

Post by voltagex_ »

chris11 wrote: post #12
habitue wrote: post #8

Now, if only we could get rid of the DRM infesting the games industry like they did with music. It's seriously ridiculous that you can't get a refund for or resell downloaded games. The plastic disk doesn't fundamentally change anything, and they know it, otherwise they'd charge less for digital versions.

Steam has a somewhat reasonable refund policy: http://store.steampowered.com/steam_refunds/ . And most online purchases are made with credit cards, and those usually have strong consumer protections. You could always do a chargeback if the game launch was really bad (SimCity, Dayz). Also, a lot of credit cards have return polices where you can get refunds for any reason within 60 days of purchase.

I know the US & Canada don't have a lot of consumer protections but coming from Australia this looks like a terrible policy - https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees...

Re: As Downloads Take Over, a Turning Point for the Video Game Industry

#55

Post by shmerl »

voltagex_ wrote: post #52
bsilvereagle wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I really hope digital downloads will take over. There are lots of people on capped satellite/3G/"water tower" internet who enjoy gaming that are going to be cut out of the market if consoles go to a pure digital distribution system. Additionally, gamers in very remote locations (submarines, remote foreign villages, etc) couldn't have the latest releases mailed to them. Somehow they'd have to find a broadband connec…

It's a "problem" even for people on wired net connections. I've got ~10/1 ADSL (nominally 8 megabits on a good day). This console generation is really testing the limits of my bandwidth - Halo 5 is 60+ GB, and it doesn't help when you've got errors like http://www.iinet.net.au/status/4438711 happening. 60GB would take 16 hours which is overnight-and-a-bit. Unfortunately the One is not fault tolerant at all . I'll tur…

> It's a "problem" even for people on wired net connections

Legacy DSL is indeed a problem for that. High end games (and PC ones are even more so than console ones) are huge.

As I wrote below - DRM free games can solve this with services which will just ship you a game on flash storage on demand. DRMed ones however (and most current consoles are sick with DRM) would have an issue with such method. Your option could be ditching such consoles and sticking to DRM-free games and platforms.

Re: As Downloads Take Over, a Turning Point for the Video Game Industry

#56

Post by habitue »

Houshalter wrote: post #20
habitue wrote: post #8

Now, if only we could get rid of the DRM infesting the games industry like they did with music. It's seriously ridiculous that you can't get a refund for or resell downloaded games. The plastic disk doesn't fundamentally change anything, and they know it, otherwise they'd charge less for digital versions.

They can't charge less for the digital version because of gamestop. Gamestop won't carry games where the digital version is cheaper. There might also be similar arrangements with the console makers themselves, not wanting to encourage the PC market. Games made only for PC are cheaper and have better sales. As for reselling games, that would seriously hurt developers. A single game could be resold 100s of times, but o…

This is called the doctrine of first sale, and it's been fine for physical products since forever. (The maker of the chair only makes money on the first sale of the chair, everyone else plays for "free") If you're going to say " But information products don't degrade", I'll note that a product degrading is not a condition of the first sale doctrine. You can sell your mint condition Mickey Mantle card, without giving a cut to Tops

Re: As Downloads Take Over, a Turning Point for the Video Game Industry

#57

Post by habitue »

vinkelhake wrote: post #29
habitue wrote: post #8

Now, if only we could get rid of the DRM infesting the games industry like they did with music. It's seriously ridiculous that you can't get a refund for or resell downloaded games. The plastic disk doesn't fundamentally change anything, and they know it, otherwise they'd charge less for digital versions.

If I can be the devil's advocate a for a bit... I don't think it's entirely ridiculous that you can't resell an item that never degrades. If this was possible, it would be a huge blow to publishers. Imagine a new game being released on PS4 for $60. A good number of people buy the game at release, play it through and then put it up on a marketplace at a lower price. At this time, there is zero incentive for a buyer to…

The same arguments could be made for digital music, yet somehow they still make it work without DRM

Re: As Downloads Take Over, a Turning Point for the Video Game Industry

#58

Post by zaroth »

moskie wrote: post #13

I think a harbinger of this was the fact that the latest console generation did not come with an upgrade in (physical) game medium. Previously, each console generation came with newer cartridges, then with newer disc formats (CD, then DVD, then HD-DVD / Blu Ray). But this generation just stuck with Blu Ray. That signaled to me that this may very well be the last generation to even support physical media. If this cons…

I think you're right that the consoles missed a chance to upgrade the medium. Since disc access is so terribly slow, the disk is a sneaker-net. If the disk was a small fast SSD (which is a nice stable operating mode) or even like CompactFlash at least it would provide some physical value.

The problem is it's a cost center. And downloading will always be more convenient. Connections are easily fast enough to transfer the static data.

Re: As Downloads Take Over, a Turning Point for the Video Game Industry

#59

Post by zaroth »

I am surprised by how bad the Store is on the Xbox One. I did not find much there, and the interface, oh wow it is so bad. Then the servers start crapping out and simple local games fall over, sync issues, just all sorts of problems. It has not been a smooth experience, but even still I'm thinking, what's the point of getting in a car and driving to a store? There needs to be a reason to go there other than because disks are physical media. But the store will have to radically transform to serve a purpose.

As for reselling games, this just gives any game with online content tied to an account an inherent advantage. Charging every user can be done with or without physical media. If the static data itself commands a price, probably you are doing it wrong. You want people to pass that around for free as a favor.

Re: As Downloads Take Over, a Turning Point for the Video Game Industry

#60

Post by lectrick »

habitue wrote: post #8

Now, if only we could get rid of the DRM infesting the games industry like they did with music. It's seriously ridiculous that you can't get a refund for or resell downloaded games. The plastic disk doesn't fundamentally change anything, and they know it, otherwise they'd charge less for digital versions.

http://www.gog.com/
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