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Chinese cities use “mist cannon” to shoot pollution from the sky

qz.com

11–20 of 105 posts

Re: Chinese cities use “mist cannon” to shoot pollution from the sky

#11
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Autocratic governments aren't exactly known for their forward seeking vision. Problems come up and half assed solutions come down. There's no democratic element to demand a higher level of service, say with how the US had its environment movement which led to many laws protecting the land, air, and water and ultimately culminated into several state agencies, federal guidelines, the EPA, etc. These are large holistic…

You realize that the level of environmental protection that we currently have in the US is only possible at the current level of consumption because we exported most of our polluting industry to China, right?

This is absolutely untrue. Even in the US's manufacturing heyday we had strict environment laws. In fact, this all happened because people were seeing what industry was doing the environment in the 40's, 50's, and 60's. Some light reading here:

http://www.epa.gov/aboutepa/epa-history-1970-1985

China isn't doing much of the above, if any.

Excerpt:

During this period a great many new environmental laws were passed and some old ones resurrected and refurbished as well as energy legislation that impacted on the environment. Other environmental type laws were enacted, such as the Coastal Zone Management Act (1972), the Marine Protection Research and Sanctuaries Act (1972), the Endangered Species Act (1973), the Wild and Scenic Rivers Act (1976), the Marine Mammal Protection Act (1972), the Deepwater Ports and Waterways Safety Act (1974), the Fish and Wildlife Coordination Act (1974), the Water Resources Planning Act (1977), the Water Resources Research Act (1977), the Environmental Quality Improvement Act (1970), several amendments to the Food Drug and Cosmetics Act, and the Environmental Education Act. There was renewed enforcement of the Rivers and Harbors Act of 1899.

The Rules and Regulations issued under these laws numbered into many thousands. In its early years EPA alone placed about 1500 rulemaking notices in the Federal Register annually.

Re: Chinese cities use “mist cannon” to shoot pollution from the sky

#12
post #2

Doesn't this simply remove some of the symptoms instead of working with the root cause?

Autocratic governments aren't exactly known for their forward seeking vision. Problems come up and half assed solutions come down. There's no democratic element to demand a higher level of service, say with how the US had its environment movement which led to many laws protecting the land, air, and water and ultimately culminated into several state agencies, federal guidelines, the EPA, etc. These are large holistic…

Per capita the US is still pretty lousy.

http://www.wri.org/blog/2014/11/6-graphs-explain-world%E2%80...

The US is still in the top "energy use per capita" countries.

Re: Chinese cities use “mist cannon” to shoot pollution from the sky

#13
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Autocratic governments aren't exactly known for their forward seeking vision. Problems come up and half assed solutions come down. There's no democratic element to demand a higher level of service, say with how the US had its environment movement which led to many laws protecting the land, air, and water and ultimately culminated into several state agencies, federal guidelines, the EPA, etc. These are large holistic…

Per capita the US is still pretty lousy. http://www.wri.org/blog/2014/11/6-graphs-explain-world%E2%80... The US is still in the top "energy use per capita" countries.

I don't think per capita is a valuable number here.

China's got a twofold problem: They pollute a lot, and that pollution happens over a much smaller area of land, while the USA has it spread out a lot more. Per capita emissions doesn't tell us if the air in the largest cities is going to be the consistency of pea soup...

Re: Chinese cities use “mist cannon” to shoot pollution from the sky

#14
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Per capita the US is still pretty lousy. http://www.wri.org/blog/2014/11/6-graphs-explain-world%E2%80... The US is still in the top "energy use per capita" countries.

I don't think per capita is a valuable number here. China's got a twofold problem: They pollute a lot , and that pollution happens over a much smaller area of land, while the USA has it spread out a lot more. Per capita emissions doesn't tell us if the air in the largest cities is going to be the consistency of pea soup...

My link gives a bunch of other measures, and the US is lousy on most of those too.

I'm not saying the US is worse than China. Parent poster said that the US's democracy meant that it wasn't a big polluter, but that's clearly bollocks, the US has been, and is, a huge polluter.

Re: Chinese cities use “mist cannon” to shoot pollution from the sky

#15
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You realize that the level of environmental protection that we currently have in the US is only possible at the current level of consumption because we exported most of our polluting industry to China, right?

This is absolutely untrue. Even in the US's manufacturing heyday we had strict environment laws. In fact, this all happened because people were seeing what industry was doing the environment in the 40's, 50's, and 60's. Some light reading here: http://www.epa.gov/aboutepa/epa-history-1970-1985 China isn't doing much of the above, if any. Excerpt: During this period a great many new environmental laws were passed and…

>> You realize that the level of environmental protection that we currently have in the US is only possible at the current level of consumption because we exported most of our polluting industry to China, right?

> This is absolutely untrue. Even in the US's manufacturing heyday we had strict environment laws.

Which, combined with wage laws, resulted in the offshoring of dirty industry. We still produce nearly as much as China, but our industries of choice are generally cleaner industries. It is cheaper to pollute China than to adhere to US manufacturing laws. We could not produce the same quantity of "dirty" goods here for prices that would allow for current levels of consumption. Arguing otherwise is a bit like saying manufacturing moved to China for no reason.

Re: Chinese cities use “mist cannon” to shoot pollution from the sky

#17
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think per capita is a valuable number here. China's got a twofold problem: They pollute a lot , and that pollution happens over a much smaller area of land, while the USA has it spread out a lot more. Per capita emissions doesn't tell us if the air in the largest cities is going to be the consistency of pea soup...

My link gives a bunch of other measures, and the US is lousy on most of those too. I'm not saying the US is worse than China. Parent poster said that the US's democracy meant that it wasn't a big polluter, but that's clearly bollocks, the US has been, and is, a huge polluter.

Excuse me but I have to go downstairs where half of my 4000 sqft house is, as my coal-powered heat source is better there, and then I need to get in one third of my vehicles to drive, by myself, an hour to work. I will read your "research" later while sipping on my latte. I will google "polluter" later so I understand better your article.

sigh

Re: Chinese cities use “mist cannon” to shoot pollution from the sky

#19
post #2

Doesn't this simply remove some of the symptoms instead of working with the root cause?

When the root cause is bad government that can't enforce environmental laws due to corruption...and you are the government who doesn't want to change (say by more accountability via elections and a free press), looking for something that instead treats the symptoms is attractive.

Make no mistake, China's pollution problem is very much a political one.

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