Facebook’s “Save Free Basics in India” Campaign Provokes Controversy • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook’s “Save Free Basics in India” Campaign Provokes Controversy

#31

Post by mtgx » Tue, Dec 22, 2015, 11:54 AM UTC

pandatigox wrote: post #21

I think what pissed me off the most was Facebook's reaction to net neutrality. Instead of attempting to reflect and revise their free Internet service so it can better serve the masses, it just attempts to slander and point fingers at net neutrality advocates. Like "ooooh no! We ain't the problem for your not having "free" Internet, it's those guys those over there arguing that free access to all of Internet is bette…

What pisses me off more is when they do "evil stuff" and then say it's "just a technical error":

http://trak.in/tags/business/2015/12/22/users-mails-usa-cana...

I also deeply dislike their use of "Internet.org" - it's just shameless. How can 50 websites be anything close to the "Internet"?

Eventually they kind of got the message on that, too, which is why they've renamed the service to Free Basics, but they're still using the Internet.org website to promote it.

Re: Facebook’s “Save Free Basics in India” Campaign Provokes Controversy

#32

Post by peteretep » Tue, Dec 22, 2015, 11:56 AM UTC

Ar-Curunir wrote: post #17

magic_man wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you never use these free AOL CDs when you were a kid. Yes they did provide access to the entire internet, but it was designed to get people to use AOL. I am not going to complain about free internet even if it is walled.

I'd rather not have Western companies filter what Indians can and cannot have under the assumption that India is too poor or backwards to get its shit done.

    > under the assumption that India is too poor or
    > backwards to get its shit done

Perhaps until it does "get its shit done" that assumption would appear to hold?

I have often wondered what the middle-class Indian dudes who are trying to block their country men from getting Facebook and Wikipedia access are really scared of. Could it just be they're worried about how it looks?

Re: Facebook’s “Save Free Basics in India” Campaign Provokes Controversy

#33

Post by mtgx » Tue, Dec 22, 2015, 11:56 AM UTC

mattlutze wrote: post #28

pandatigox wrote: post #21

I think what pissed me off the most was Facebook's reaction to net neutrality. Instead of attempting to reflect and revise their free Internet service so it can better serve the masses, it just attempts to slander and point fingers at net neutrality advocates. Like "ooooh no! We ain't the problem for your not having "free" Internet, it's those guys those over there arguing that free access to all of Internet is bette…

It's almost beautifully murky that the folks using the app would come to think that what is offered to them is the Internet. This is a distilled example of what heavy ISP control of the Internet could look like. Getting service to disadvantaged or destitute people is great. But it's so very important that Google, Facebook, Apple, Comcast, Verizon, TWC, whomever are constrained from wanton good-will Trojan horses. The…

Indeed. China would love it if they could start over and just offer a "Free Basics" version of the "Internet" to its billion citizens. It would make censorship easier by orders and orders of magnitude (basically as easy to censor as TV is over there).

Re: Facebook’s “Save Free Basics in India” Campaign Provokes Controversy

#34

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Dec 22, 2015, 11:56 AM UTC

horsecaptin wrote: post #4

Facebook provides free access to Facebook / Wikipedia etc... then customers that have no access win because they get access and along with it, some pretty nifty tools to gain information and share news with their friends and family. On the other hand, if Facebook doesn't provide free internet, then all those people stay in the dark. What does net neutrality have to do with this? It's not those people are paying for a…

[deleted]

Re: Facebook’s “Save Free Basics in India” Campaign Provokes Controversy

#35

Post by l1feh4ck » Tue, Dec 22, 2015, 11:58 AM UTC

Keeping marketing or financial problems aside. What are the technical difficulties that Facebook would face when providing access to the whole web rather that some specific website?

Data from Facebook or Wikipedia is same as the data from any other website. They will need the same infrastructure. What am I missing here?

Re: Facebook’s “Save Free Basics in India” Campaign Provokes Controversy

#36

Post by zinghaboi » Tue, Dec 22, 2015, 12:04 PM UTC

horsecaptin wrote: post #4

Facebook provides free access to Facebook / Wikipedia etc... then customers that have no access win because they get access and along with it, some pretty nifty tools to gain information and share news with their friends and family. On the other hand, if Facebook doesn't provide free internet, then all those people stay in the dark. What does net neutrality have to do with this? It's not those people are paying for a…

I think their "free basics" is geared towards people who already have internet. They are not exactly going to remote villages and electrifying them.

Imagine how hard it would be for Indian startups when you need a 'license' from Facebook to deploy your app to your target market. The poor will have free facebook, but they won't have tech jobs. I've seen thousands of really poor guys being alleviated out of poverty due to Indian tech businesses which could grow because competition was fair. Tomorrow when launching an app means getting a license from facebook, it would be much harder!!

And it is a fair argument to make that other big boys will jump in to give some competition to facebook's "zero rating" but what about the small guys??

Re: Facebook’s “Save Free Basics in India” Campaign Provokes Controversy

#37

Post by x5n1 » Tue, Dec 22, 2015, 12:05 PM UTC

mattlutze wrote: post #28

pandatigox wrote: post #21

I think what pissed me off the most was Facebook's reaction to net neutrality. Instead of attempting to reflect and revise their free Internet service so it can better serve the masses, it just attempts to slander and point fingers at net neutrality advocates. Like "ooooh no! We ain't the problem for your not having "free" Internet, it's those guys those over there arguing that free access to all of Internet is bette…

It's almost beautifully murky that the folks using the app would come to think that what is offered to them is the Internet. This is a distilled example of what heavy ISP control of the Internet could look like. Getting service to disadvantaged or destitute people is great. But it's so very important that Google, Facebook, Apple, Comcast, Verizon, TWC, whomever are constrained from wanton good-will Trojan horses. The…

Facebook is already stealing hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars worth of revenue from content creators like video makers whose videos are stolen and posted on fb's walled garden for the benefit of facebook and content pirates. i guess fb is hoping to capitalize on this trend, steal all online content in the name of providing it for the masses, and put all that ad money into its coffers. that would be longer term game with "free basics".

Captive market which you can sell ads to and force content creators and their thieves to post it all to facebook.

Re: Facebook’s “Save Free Basics in India” Campaign Provokes Controversy

#38

Post by firasd » Tue, Dec 22, 2015, 12:13 PM UTC

l1feh4ck wrote: post #35

Keeping marketing or financial problems aside. What are the technical difficulties that Facebook would face when providing access to the whole web rather that some specific website? Data from Facebook or Wikipedia is same as the data from any other website. They will need the same infrastructure. What am I missing here?

I think network operators around the world are receptive to ‘zero-rating’ certain websites (which is all Free Basics really is) whereas making free data available with a usage cap or speed cap would be something new. Facebook is not actually providing access or building infrastructure (under this program), they are teaming up with ISPs.

Re: Facebook’s “Save Free Basics in India” Campaign Provokes Controversy

#39

Post by zinghaboi » Tue, Dec 22, 2015, 12:23 PM UTC

Lets look at two extremes.

->India without net neutrality: Everyone has free Facebook. "Free basics" didn't help in advancing electrification of the country but it did provide free facebook/wikipedia to everyone. So 30% of the country is still in dark. But 50% of the rest of India doesn't pay for internet and it thinks there is no need to because that is ALL the internet has to offer. A young founder launches a new education app to teach reading/writing to poor villagers. But she first needs to get a 'license' from facebook. Facebook doesn't think it is a good idea for its users to 'waste' time on other services instead of watching ads on FB, so it declines. Startups don't receive as much funding because of the 'licensing' issues and there aren't as many Indian tech companies as there could've been. News is censored by Facebook and Facebook can now influence Indian politics. 100,000 fewer jobs were created because the Indian tech scene didn't take off.

->India with net neutrality: 50% of the country cannot pay for internet. They still don't have access to internet. They use other forms of communication to get their daily, unfiltered news. The startup scene in India is growing at its natural pace and the culture has become more innovative. In another 10-15 everyone will have internet. 100's of thousands of poor were lifted out of poverty due to tech jobs in India.

One is a short term 'fix' which ruins the future. Another is a little bit harder but provides for a better future.

Re: Facebook’s “Save Free Basics in India” Campaign Provokes Controversy

#40

Post by abhaga » Tue, Dec 22, 2015, 12:23 PM UTC

peteretep wrote: post #32

Ar-Curunir wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather not have Western companies filter what Indians can and cannot have under the assumption that India is too poor or backwards to get its shit done.

> under the assumption that India is too poor or > backwards to get its shit done Perhaps until it does "get its shit done" that assumption would appear to hold? I have often wondered what the middle-class Indian dudes who are trying to block their country men from getting Facebook and Wikipedia access are really scared of. Could it just be they're worried about how it looks?

Yep. We don't want you to see our elephants and tigers. And the snake charmers.