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SpaceX launch webcast: Orbcomm-2 Mission [video]

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Re: SpaceX launch webcast: Orbcomm-2 Mission [video]

#121

Post by CamperBob2 »

grkvlt wrote: post #107
CamperBob2 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Welcome to the club"? Wow, that was classless. What Blue Origin did was impressive, but it was utterly trivial compared to what just happened with this flight.

Really, 'classless'? The achievement is landing a space-capable booster vertically, after an actual mission above 100km, which can then be reused. And, Blue Origin managed that first, no two ways about it. I think it's probably pretty classless to imply that what Blue Origin managed to do was 'trivial'. Just because SpaceX is the current hacker's favourite, doesn't mean you have to downplay everyone else. I think Mus…

What, exactly, did Blue Origin do that the X-15 didn't do 50 years ago? Other than the terrestrial launch, that's about all I can think of.

Re: SpaceX launch webcast: Orbcomm-2 Mission [video]

#122

Post by planckscnst »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #77
planckscnst wrote: post #58

"Congrats @SpaceX on landing Falcon's suborbital booster stage. Welcome to the club!" Oy... someone needs to tell Bezos it's a whole different scale than what he did. https://twitter.com/JeffBezos/status/679116636310360067

I have a vague feeling he's being snide to pay Elon back for those mildly snarky tweets back when Blue Origin landed their rocket. EDIT: Musk: "Congrats to Jeff Bezos and the BO team for achieving VTOL on their booster" Musk: "It is, however, important to clear up the difference between "space" and "orbit", as described well by https://what-if.xkcd.com/58/" http://money.cnn.com/2015/11/24/news/companies/elon-musk-jef…

Actually, thinking about it, if they staged a faux-rivalry, it would probably get more public interest in space. People can choose their team and have someone to root for and someone to hate.

Re: SpaceX launch webcast: Orbcomm-2 Mission [video]

#124

Post by grkvlt »

jacquesm wrote: post #115
grkvlt wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really, 'classless'? The achievement is landing a space-capable booster vertically, after an actual mission above 100km, which can then be reused. And, Blue Origin managed that first, no two ways about it. I think it's probably pretty classless to imply that what Blue Origin managed to do was 'trivial'. Just because SpaceX is the current hacker's favourite, doesn't mean you have to downplay everyone else. I think Mus…

I think you underestimate the degree of difficulty between these two achievements. They are both very impressive but what SpaceX just did is many times more difficult than what Blue Origin did.

OK, explain how the landing of the SpaceX first stage was many times more difficult? They used different mechanisms, yes (suicide burn vs. hover-capable) and the purpose of the overall system was different, but they are both VTOL rockets.

Blue Origin was first, and Bezos can quite rightly welcome SpaceX to 'the club' as the second company to achieve this, without being accused of being classless, surely?

Re: SpaceX launch webcast: Orbcomm-2 Mission [video]

#126

Post by mikeash »

kibwen wrote: post #72
TeMPOraL wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How reusable this first stage is? They'll have to study it meticulously to find out. But what they're aiming for is to be able to just refuel it, mount new payload on top, and relight it in the span of hours.

That's an impressively ambitious goal. Has SpaceX mentioned any willingness to use returned first stage rockets to launch astronauts? That would be the ultimate expression of their confidence in this approach, though understandably it may be a long ways off.

It's funny, with most vehicles you want to avoid being on a completely new, untested one. Think about it: would you be comfortable flying on a brand new 787 that had never been flown before, not even once? I sure wouldn't. Before long, maybe rockets will be like that too.

Re: SpaceX launch webcast: Orbcomm-2 Mission [video]

#127

Post by TeMPOraL »

I join in congratulating SpaceX for this awesome achievement. It's like, holy fuck, they landed the rocket AND deployed 11 satellites, all in a single Pomodoro!

I also want to commend them for a few minor things:

- a real-time stream from landing (as opposed to holding it and releasing footage few days later, as before)

- a real-time stream from satellite deployment, with a camera placed so that we could see everything (as opposed to the typical low-quality stream of the engine nozzle)

- a launch timeline visible on the stream

This mission looked an order of magnitude better than anything they did before. It's like, before they were just playing around, and now they're doing serious business. Keep it up, SpaceX!

Re: SpaceX launch webcast: Orbcomm-2 Mission [video]

#128

Post by mikeash »

jacquesm wrote: post #109
bryanh wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The money quote: > Musk said that a rocket's first stage accounts for three-quarters of its total price tag, so a vehicle with a reusable first stage can be produced at far less cost — assuming the hardware is fully and rapidly reusable. ~75% savings seems like a "best case scenario" number.

Good enough for me. Even if it is only 25% in practice they'll own the market.

They're already insanely cheap compared to most competitors. This should take them to being ludicrously cheap.

Re: SpaceX launch webcast: Orbcomm-2 Mission [video]

#129

Post by jacquesm »

grkvlt wrote: post #124
jacquesm wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you underestimate the degree of difficulty between these two achievements. They are both very impressive but what SpaceX just did is many times more difficult than what Blue Origin did.

OK, explain how the landing of the SpaceX first stage was many times more difficult? They used different mechanisms, yes (suicide burn vs. hover-capable) and the purpose of the overall system was different, but they are both VTOL rockets. Blue Origin was first , and Bezos can quite rightly welcome SpaceX to 'the club' as the second company to achieve this, without being accused of being classless, surely?

Because the Falcon 9 traveled at several thousand miles per hour horizontally when it did its flip and then the first retro burn. By contrast, the Blue Origin rocket went straight up, and straight back down. It never moved away from the launchpad in any appreciable amount and it never had to change orientation. From a space applications perspective it is not much more useful than a blimp.

Today, history was made. Blue Origin: not so much. Nice but nowhere near in the same league (or the same club, to stick with Bezos).

Re: SpaceX launch webcast: Orbcomm-2 Mission [video]

#130

Post by grkvlt »

JshWright wrote: post #117
grkvlt wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really, 'classless'? The achievement is landing a space-capable booster vertically, after an actual mission above 100km, which can then be reused. And, Blue Origin managed that first, no two ways about it. I think it's probably pretty classless to imply that what Blue Origin managed to do was 'trivial'. Just because SpaceX is the current hacker's favourite, doesn't mean you have to downplay everyone else. I think Mus…

New Shepard is able to make several compromises that make landing _much_ easier. New Shepard doesn't have to get anywhere close to orbital velocity, so it can use a far less powerful engine. That means it can throttle down far enough to hover. That is a _huge_ advantage over Falcon 9, which must time the landing burn perfectly to hit 0 velocity at the exact moment it touches the ground. They're in the same club like…

But the F9 first stage doesn't get to orbital velocity, either, remember.

The achievements are comparable, despite the fact it makes SpaceX come second. Blue Origin was first with a VTOL rocket stage, as part of a space system.

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