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Bacteria that resist 'last antibiotic' found in UK

bbc.com

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Re: Bacteria that resist 'last antibiotic' found in UK

#91
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps it is you who is naive to the so-called nirvana logical fallacy? > Comparing a realistic solution with an idealized one, and dismissing or even discounting the realistic solution as a result of comparing to a “perfect world” or impossible standard. Ignoring the fact that improvements are often good enough reason. Indeed, absolving oneself of personal responsibility, especially when direct harm is so apparent,…

> Comparing a realistic solution with an idealized one Now government regulations placed on the agricultural industry are idealistic? > dismissing or even discounting the realistic solution I am strongly encouraging the more realistic solution, not dismissing or discounting it. How is expecting an impactful number of people to discontinue antibiotic meat usage more realistic than expecting government to step in? > ab…

Holding the government to such optimistic standards is blatantly a straw man. We both know how little gets done unless money is involved, and unfortunately for us all, the animal agriculture business has incredible political power.

I challenge your assertion you avoid antibiotic animal products altogether - an impractical and unverifiable way to discourage the use of antibiotics. If you are serious, consider how purchasing meat, etc. directly leads to "deforestation ... lack of fresh water" without bias. Shaming isn't necessary, just educate yourself and others.

Re: Bacteria that resist 'last antibiotic' found in UK

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose these don't sound boastful to you either: http://www.salon.com/2014/11/05/enjoy_it_while_it_lasts_gop_... http://www.salon.com/2012/11/07/whites_only_gop_meets_its_de...

I'll just quote myself, because you seem to have ignored the rest of what I've said in favor of mindlessly repeating yourself: "And even if they are liberals boasting about it, how does that make it a "scheme" so much as simply pointing out their successes and advantages? Basically where is there any shred of evidence that the prevailing reason for supporting immigration is to generate a majority, rather than simply…

>Basically where is there any shred of evidence that the prevailing reason for supporting immigration is to generate a majority, rather than simply thinking it is the right or best thing to do?"

Quoting myself from another post:

> What other reason could there be for self-described progressives to support the mass importation of homophobic, misogynist, and devoutly religious Muslims, other than their unwavering support for left-wing parties

The left enacts policies to alter the demographics of a nation in ways that will virtually guarantee them electoral success, and then they loudly decry anyone who criticizes these policies as a "racist," "xenophobe," or something similar, and then they even have the nerve to write boastful articles like the ones I linked to above; it's too obvious to ignore at this point, and the rise of Trump and other immigration restrictionist candidates is an understandable and overdue response.

Re: Bacteria that resist 'last antibiotic' found in UK

#93
post #34

Studies show that immigration, sadly, is linked to the spread of antibiotic-resistant diseases. Example: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/25418572/ Immigrant hotspots in London now have tuberculosis rates higher than Iraq and Rwanda. 80% of cases are people born abroad, and some are antibiotic-resistant. This is a disease we thought we'd erradicated: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-34637968 The U.K. h…

That study -- which is merely a meta-study of 26 selected other studies -- just summarizes the incidence rates of resistant strains in migrant populations vs. local populations. It seems unsurprising to me that immigrants from countries with poor public health systems tend to be sicker than we are and we should probably intensify our efforts to aid them in that regard.

It makes no claim with respects to how relevant any of this is with respect to the overall increase in the occurrence of resistant strains. I'm not a doctor, I don't know how relevant this is, if at all. Clearly, being able to claim that immigrants spread disease fits a certain political agenda.

The U.K. has seen unprecedented inflows in the last year (640K immigrants)

With approximately 310k leaving, in other words, net migration is 330k[0]. But it sure is fun to quote the higher number! Of the ~640k, ~300k are coming to work (2/3 of them with a job offer), and 180k are coming to study. Since EU citizens are free to move around, unsurprisingly most of the immigrants (and, I presume, the emigrants) are from other EU countries.

On the other hand, the UK is doing comparatively little in terms of letting asylum seekers enter the country, despite being one of the richest countries on the planet in the middle of one of a humanitarian crisis: With almost a million people having crossed the Mediterranean as refugees and migrants so far this year, and conflicts in Syria and elsewhere continuing to generate staggering levels of human suffering, 2015 is likely to exceed all previous records for global forced displacement, the UN Refugee Agency warned in a new report today.[1]

[0] The number is "unprecedented" in so far as that it's 10k or 3% higher than the one in 2005, which as we all know left Britain reeling in anarchy and destitution. http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/aug/27/net-migration...

[1] Staggering levels of human suffering. http://www.unhcr.org/5672c2576.html

Re: Bacteria that resist 'last antibiotic' found in UK

#94

How about the most obvious solution: Stop keeping (farm) animals in conditions that require mass antibiotic feedings for the animals to survive?!

Amen. Animal agriculture (innocuously referred to as "agriculture" in the article) has to be the single biggest contributor to the existence of these superbugs.

Has to be?

From what I've read the evidence isn't all that strong between use of antibiotics in livestock and resistance in humans.

Remember a lot of the antibiotics used in livestocks aren't even approved for use in humans. Or they were used in humans a long time ago, but no longer are.

Re: Bacteria that resist 'last antibiotic' found in UK

#95
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article actually specifically calls out agriculture in China: "The Chinese resistance cases were down to overuse of antibiotics in agriculture."

Yes, but at least in China there is the political will to tackle environment issues. The US is still locked and highly corrupt :/

"Political will"?

That's an interesting way to describe a dictatorship!

Re: Bacteria that resist 'last antibiotic' found in UK

#96
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This needs to be done on a global scale and we haven't even made progress on that in the US. How do we start?

It sounds cruel, but I think we need to call people out when they eat factory meat.

I agree! The best way to have someone stop doing something is to shame them publicly and paint them as a bad person. It really motivates the person to change and doesn't cause them to become more resistant to doing what you want.

Re: Bacteria that resist 'last antibiotic' found in UK

#97
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

tptacek, It seems to me that, in every thread, you find a way to dream that more "regulations" will solve all of the social ills of the US and beyond. The agri-industrial complex is perhaps the clearest example that the powerful among the regulated will find a way to be the regulators. What more needs to happen to clarify this for you?

Regulations are a right tool for the job here. What would be a non-regulatory approach? Let the market decide? The market decided; it doesn't give a flying damn about things like loss of antibiotics for human healthcare; people want their cheap meat, the market delivers. If it involves overusing antibiotics, so be it.

The problem I think he is trying to point out, is that the regulatory agencies are controlled by those businesses in the first place. The FDA tried to regulate antibiotics in farm use decades ago, and the industry threw a fit until it stopped. They tried again awhile ago, and they fought against them until they made compliance voluntary.

If the only regulations you can have are ones which benefit big businesses, then no regulations at all might be better. You can't have a political ideology based around the idea that the government is perfectly competent and incorruptible.

Instead another alternative might be to get rid of the FDA entirely so new antibiotics can be developed faster, and we can genetically modify animals to breed them to grow bigger without antibiotics.

Well that only might work, and only in this one specific case. In general regulations can definitely be necessary. But they've proven they can't solve this problem, or at least not until the last minute when it might be too late. And even if we were successful, you can't stop other countries from doing it.

Re: Bacteria that resist 'last antibiotic' found in UK

#98

How about the most obvious solution: Stop keeping (farm) animals in conditions that require mass antibiotic feedings for the animals to survive?!

Quite often it has nothing to do with survival or health, it simply speeds weight-gain.

Re: Bacteria that resist 'last antibiotic' found in UK

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll just quote myself, because you seem to have ignored the rest of what I've said in favor of mindlessly repeating yourself: "And even if they are liberals boasting about it, how does that make it a "scheme" so much as simply pointing out their successes and advantages? Basically where is there any shred of evidence that the prevailing reason for supporting immigration is to generate a majority, rather than simply…

>Basically where is there any shred of evidence that the prevailing reason for supporting immigration is to generate a majority, rather than simply thinking it is the right or best thing to do?" Quoting myself from another post: > What other reason could there be for self-described progressives to support the mass importation of homophobic, misogynist, and devoutly religious Muslims, other than their unwavering suppo…

>The left enacts policies to alter the demographics of a nation in ways that will virtually guarantee them electoral success, and then they loudly decry anyone who criticizes these policies as a "racist," "xenophobe," or something similar

Yes... because they are. Because most liberals believe that everyone, regardless of nationality, ethnicity, or creed, deserves equal opportunity. And because they believe in diversity, and compassion, and discriminating or restricting immigration flies in the face of these principles.

>and then they even have the nerve to write boastful articles like the ones I linked to above

Yes, how dare they celebrate their successes and growing support. What monsters...

You act like this is some sort of "gotcha" paradox. It's not. It's perfectly consistent.

>to support the mass importation of homophobic, misogynist, and devoutly religious Muslims,

First, you are being racist and xenophobic here. You are stereotyping immigrants and you are supporting discrimination against them based on this.

Second, you are assuming that everyone shares your racist and xenophobic prejudices. Being against gay marriage, or being a devout Muslim are not reasons in my mind to restrict immigration, even though I think opposing gay marriage is discriminatory and that Islam is a dumb religion. Because I know that this country (USA) has opportunities for a better life than most of the world, and we should grant those opportunities to as many people as is sustainable, something which we aren't even close to achieving.

It is called compassion. And defending liberty. It is the foundation of the country, to accept the downtrodden from all over the world. It is the reason that the vast majority of the population is even on this continent in the first place.

You sound exactly like a 50's racist ranting about how segregation is ending solely because of a political plot to gain black votes, or someone from even earlier ranting about "those damn Papist Irish" taking over in a conspiracy for the Pope to rule the US.

Grow up, sometimes the world isn't as disgustingly cynical as you'd like to believe.

Re: Bacteria that resist 'last antibiotic' found in UK

#100
post #79

Officials say the threat to human health is low, but is under ongoing review. I feel better? Is my kid going to live in a post-apocalyptic world where a new Black Plague has wiped out 2/3 of the population because it is completely antibiotic resistant? Or will new solutions (maybe ones that attack at a molecular level) be available first? I'm not asking rhetorically, any input would be awesome.

(Take this as coming from someone who pays attention for some time, but is not really knowledgeable about medicine.) People are today a lot healthier than they were 50 years ago. This alone helps a lot. Additionally we have better disinfectants and better procedures and better non antibiotic drugs. So the other parts of our defense in depth are largely intact. Additionally I read some time ago that the problem is not…

It's amazing that's acceptable - but hey, publicly funding antibiotic research would be anti-American.

I mean, if you're right, it's better than millions, but it sounds relatively preventable. Or at least we could give it the old college try.

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