Disney is safeguarding its future by buying childhood, piece by piece • Hacker News Board

Re: Disney is safeguarding its future by buying childhood, piece by piece

#151

Post by AndrewKemendo » Mon, Dec 21, 2015, 2:51 PM UTC

chetanahuja wrote: post #101

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know the worst part? You can't even prevent it if you are raising your kids otherwise. My 5 year old has never seen a Disney movie, yet she told me today that for her 6th birthday she wants a Cinderella shirt and an Elsa costume - both characters she has never actually seen on screen. Her friends at school all talk about it though and recount fantastic stories. I hear from people saying that we will raise a kid w…

"At a certain point as a parent, it's kind of like, it doesn't really matter what we do." Congratulations. You've discovered the true essence of parenting ;-)

Not sure if you're being fun or patronizing, but I'll assume the former in good faith.

Regardless, this is a highly contrarian position. In fact a recent article [1] comes to the same conclusion, as well as how controversial said conclusion is.

[1]http://quillette.com/2015/12/01/why-parenting-may-not-matter...

Re: Disney is safeguarding its future by buying childhood, piece by piece

#152

Post by dagw » Mon, Dec 21, 2015, 3:15 PM UTC

theandrewbailey wrote: post #149

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know the worst part? You can't even prevent it if you are raising your kids otherwise. My 5 year old has never seen a Disney movie, yet she told me today that for her 6th birthday she wants a Cinderella shirt and an Elsa costume - both characters she has never actually seen on screen. Her friends at school all talk about it though and recount fantastic stories. I hear from people saying that we will raise a kid w…

One of my friends has had enough with little girls talking about Frozen. If I'm describing something with that word (as in, describing the icy nature of something), he will scream "ELSA IS THE DEVIL'S WHORRREEEE!". This behavior is well known among our friends and has been exploited countless times.

Meh. Just wait until they discover Minecraft. Frozen is low alcohol beer compared to the pure uncut heroin that Mojang spawned.

Re: Disney is safeguarding its future by buying childhood, piece by piece

#153

Post by lambda » Mon, Dec 21, 2015, 3:26 PM UTC

matrixagent wrote: post #136

lambda wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At some point, you have to stop considering any discussion of a movie as spoiler. The term "spoiler" should be reserved for a reveal that actually spoils the movie; where some crucial element of the movies emotional impact can be taken away by knowing some fact in advance that is held secret through the movie. The discussion in the first paragraph here pretty much just covers the exposition in the credits, and the ma…

OP didn't seem outraged to me, just a bit disappointed. Which I understand, because "at some point" is still far away for the new Star Wars movie. I do think that any discussion of a movie is a spoiler. It depends, but from friends I don't even want to know if they liked a movie or not as I know them and their taste so well that I will deduce things which will influence my experience. I want my experience as pristine…

When I say "at some point", I don't mean that that's the timeline for a particular movie. I mean at some point in your life, it is better to let go of the idea of walking into a movie in a completely pristine state with no expectation about what will happen in it.

Otherwise, either you have to cut yourself off from all media and conversation that might possibly reference the movie, or try and convince everyone you might interact with, and everyone who might write anything online, not to discuss the movie. Neither option seems particularly pleasant nor realistic to achieve. I suppose you could also just see every movie you intend to see on the first showing of the opening day.

What you are doing by asking for absolutely no information at all, even the basic exposition and setup of characters at the beginning of the movie, is imposing a large burden on everyone else around you to prevent a very minor inconvenience to yourself. I understand not wanting major spoilers, and that there should be a reasonable time before discussing those points openly without a spoiler warning. But it just seems that the trade-off is fairly poor for not even allowing the most basic discussion.

Re: Disney is safeguarding its future by buying childhood, piece by piece

#154

Post by zappo2938 » Mon, Dec 21, 2015, 3:26 PM UTC

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #37

rayiner wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we weren't raising our kids to be such consumers--turning stupid shit like Star Wars into "cultural experiences"-- Disney wouldn't have any power. They can't own sticks and dirt.

You know the worst part? You can't even prevent it if you are raising your kids otherwise. My 5 year old has never seen a Disney movie, yet she told me today that for her 6th birthday she wants a Cinderella shirt and an Elsa costume - both characters she has never actually seen on screen. Her friends at school all talk about it though and recount fantastic stories. I hear from people saying that we will raise a kid w…

Disney films are based on Joseph Campbell's comparative mythology. After the success of Lucas using one of Campbell's plots in A New Hope and Raiders of the Lost Arc, Disney decided to use this plot for all of their movies. [1] It isn't science, but it enormously compelling and effective.

Why wouldn't you want your daughter to be like Elsa? Of all the role models throughout history for little girls, Elsa is without doubt one of the best. It is only recently that women weren't portrayed a submissive needing to marry the right man to be successful. Or, Belle? Beauty and the Beast is story about the inventor's daughter, a bibliophile, who is isolated because she can't relate to her bland vanilla society that rejects intellectuals like Belle and her father. I wouldn't write off Disney so quickly. It's worth reading the Power of Myth, the transcript of the interview between Bill Moyers and Joseph Campbell, because you might appreciate the thinking behind Disney movies. You will find that there are people in control at Disney who share your values.

I can't pass judgement on parenting. However, there is a big difference allowing children to watch a Disney movie once a month or even once a week and letting children watch television 4 hours a day after school.

[1] http://www.thewritersjourney.com/hero's_journey.htm

Re: Disney is safeguarding its future by buying childhood, piece by piece

#155

Post by theandrewbailey » Mon, Dec 21, 2015, 3:35 PM UTC

dagw wrote: post #152

theandrewbailey wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my friends has had enough with little girls talking about Frozen. If I'm describing something with that word (as in, describing the icy nature of something), he will scream "ELSA IS THE DEVIL'S WHORRREEEE!". This behavior is well known among our friends and has been exploited countless times.

Meh. Just wait until they discover Minecraft. Frozen is low alcohol beer compared to the pure uncut heroin that Mojang spawned.

He's been exposed. He's more annoyed over the kids fawning over a (who seems to him) an obviously destructive character. As an alternative, he follows the Elsa line with "Hans is the true king of Arendell", because of his charity during crisis. I didn't know who he was; for all I know, he deserved what he got. Then I watched the movie, and he deserved what he got.

Neither of us like the movie that much, because it's monarchist.

Re: Disney is safeguarding its future by buying childhood, piece by piece

#156

Post by fluxquanta » Mon, Dec 21, 2015, 3:55 PM UTC

angersock wrote: post #73

fennecfoxen wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a little self-limiting in the end, at least. The more Disney throws recycled characters in our face as part of a bland franchise-entertainment product, the more compelling real original work will become, and the more likely they are to ruin the childhood magic. I also find hope in recent developments overseas, and anticipate the impact of works such as Puella Magi Madoka Magica on the future of children's televi…

Puella Magi Madoka Magica is most certainly not children's television. ／人◕ ‿‿ ◕人＼

Get the hell out of here Kyubey. I'm not signing your goddamn contract.

Re: Disney is safeguarding its future by buying childhood, piece by piece

#157

Post by norea-armozel » Mon, Dec 21, 2015, 4:16 PM UTC

zekevermillion wrote: post #30

There was some magic to the 80s childhood movies -- Star Wars, ET, Last Starfighter, Goonies -- that I don't think can be bottled. Whatever stories hold that place for our kids, I don't think they will be the same movies that did it for us. There's just something about seeing Star Wars in the context of that time, and it's not the same as seeing it now.

Part of it was that some of it was honestly the stories the boomers wanted to watch/read as children. But today, I haven't seen many stories from the current crop of Disney's writers that feel the same way. It's not about the question of marketing semi-original work, it's just that Gen Xers don't have much in the way of incentive for it. It's easier to recycle what the boomers did than make our own stories it seems.

Re: Disney is safeguarding its future by buying childhood, piece by piece

#158

Post by michaelbuddy » Mon, Dec 21, 2015, 4:34 PM UTC

prodmerc wrote: post #140

psykovsky wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vader is Luke's father? o_O

NOOOOOOO!

ironically, this line of dialogue is the biggest spoiler of any movie of all time.

Re: Disney is safeguarding its future by buying childhood, piece by piece

#159

Post by oldmanjay » Mon, Dec 21, 2015, 4:35 PM UTC

deciplex wrote: post #45

Basically nothing about Disney's strategy would be wrong, or even harmful, provided copyright terms were something reasonable rather than infinite as a practical matter. By now anyone should have been allowed to make "The Force Awakens" and without paying $4.1 billion for the privilege, either.

You are actually talking about how you believe you should be able to profit selling the original movies, if you're complaining about copyright. Trademarks are what prevent you from making a new Star Wars movie and those don't expire on a schedule.

Re: Disney is safeguarding its future by buying childhood, piece by piece

#160

Post by soylentcola » Mon, Dec 21, 2015, 4:49 PM UTC

olewhalehunter wrote: post #27

DannoHung wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did we watch different films? The end of the movie was about realizing that emotional experiences are complex and that it's ok to be sad about things and that you shouldn't run from negative emotions. Every person had an anger too. Not sure how you got the notion that the film makers thought anger is bad.

My main gripe is that of symbolic brainwashing; allowing millions of children to view media from a global corporation that asserts that the inner world of your mind acts in a specific way using constant mini-deities, asserting that "abstract thought" is risky, and enforcing psychological cliches is dangerous.

I guess I see where you're coming from and I agree that we're all entitled to our peeves and things that just rub us the wrong way.

That said, I look at these sorts of films like the old fables and many newer children's stories: they personify various aspects of life (in this case, emotions) in order to simplify them at first glance for easy recognition and then as a vehicle to show where those seemingly simple things can also be complex and unpredictable.

It's not even just kids' stories that do this. Plenty of movies and other stories use archetypes and "avatars" as characters. It's shorthand that makes it easier to jump into the narrative. Often they're combinations of different stock characters but the kids' stuff is often simpler.

Either way, I grew up with plenty of kids' stories where you knew who the good guy was, who the bad guy was, who the rogue/trickster was, etc. It hasn't stopped me from appreciating more subtle or complex characters and stories as an adult. It's almost as if you learn the basic "language" of characterization and storytelling first, and then can appreciate more varied combinations that as possible with experience. At some point, the fact that certain traits and behaviors are unexpected becomes a big part of a more "grown up" story's appeal.