Mind blown! Wat? If it's falsified then it's just wrong, i.e. it had the potential to be science before it was proven to be wrong and now it isn't. He seems to be confused about the chronology of theories. If I make up a theory based on complete bs and it just happens to be falsifiable and then falsified then I wasn't doing science. I don't know of any falsifiable theory that was just pulled out of a hat, was recognized as one but wasn't immediately falsified (if there is one then he has a point.) If I come up with a theory and work hard to make sure it's falsifiable then I was doing science even if the theory was later falsified.
Physicists and Philosophers Debate the Boundaries of Science
51–60 of 168 posts
Re: Physicists and Philosophers Debate the Boundaries of Science
#52This crisis in Physics makes me happier than anyone can know. It signals the end of the dominance of Kantian philosophy in Physics. Mach's principle (Einstein's polestar), Popperian falsifiability, Cantor's paradise of infinity (as described by Hilbert) and all other derivatives of Kant are the dead-end of a false metaphysics and epistemology. We do indeed, live in interesting (or depending on your worldview, dangero…
Re: Physicists and Philosophers Debate the Boundaries of Science
#53and in between is quantum physics which is great for predicting outcomes but cannot be proven that it accurately describes reality
Re: Physicists and Philosophers Debate the Boundaries of Science
#54We had a rush of scientific breakthroughs 100 years ago. I believe we will have more. That experimentation in physics has slowed down to 18th century levels doesn't mean science is over, it just means the low-hanging fruit is over and we will have to continue slogging through theory before we discover new experiments. Science has always relied on philosophy for its underlying direction, it's just obvious again. It to…
Another thing somewhat impacted by this issue that people don't think about is that we might not be able to keep up this pace in research for things like string theory for non-scientific reasons: specifically, science funding has flat-lined while the number of students entering the fundamental research fields is increasing. Really, particle physics is probably one of the most saturated fields in theoretical physics today.
There simply isn't enough room for everyone to study what they want. Therefore, given the "zero-sum game" situation we have, we need to decide where it's beneficial to spend our tax dollars and time researching...or most likely, governments who barely understand how to balance a budget will decide it for us. Given that string theory's only argument at this point is suspect amongst a plurality of traditional scientists, it seems like low-hanging fruit to be picked off the funding tree.
Regarding the "keep researching" line in higher level theory that the end of the article and you seem to be promoting...I think yes, you will always have people researching something out there, although honestly, the people who will be able to will most likely be at a certain number of institutions which can be enumerated on one or two hands. The rest of theoretical particle physics? I guess the sustainability of that program is dependent on the stress tolerance of physics graduate students and post-docs for the time going forward.
The other way out is to, you guessed it, work in research that is testable, and leads to fancy toys the beltway boys can appreciate.
Re: Physicists and Philosophers Debate the Boundaries of Science
#55Re: Physicists and Philosophers Debate the Boundaries of Science
#56"Astrology, for instance, is falsifiable — indeed, it has been falsified ad nauseam — and yet it isn’t science." -Pigliucci Mind blown! Wat? If it's falsified then it's just wrong, i.e. it had the potential to be science before it was proven to be wrong and now it isn't. He seems to be confused about the chronology of theories. If I make up a theory based on complete bs and it just happens to be falsifiable and then…
Re: Physicists and Philosophers Debate the Boundaries of Science
#57We had a rush of scientific breakthroughs 100 years ago. I believe we will have more. That experimentation in physics has slowed down to 18th century levels doesn't mean science is over, it just means the low-hanging fruit is over and we will have to continue slogging through theory before we discover new experiments. Science has always relied on philosophy for its underlying direction, it's just obvious again. It to…
No one is arguing whether science is over, they are arguing whether modern theoretical physics is science. Another thing somewhat impacted by this issue that people don't think about is that we might not be able to keep up this pace in research for things like string theory for non-scientific reasons: specifically, science funding has flat-lined while the number of students entering the fundamental research fields is…
This is probably not true. All kinds of money is being poured into physics research to create better batteries for example. It may be indirect, but there's a ton of money going into physics research.
Re: Physicists and Philosophers Debate the Boundaries of Science
#58"Massimo Pigliucci, a philosopher at the Graduate Center of the City University of New York, pointed out that falsifiability is woefully inadequate as a separator of science and nonscience, as Popper himself recognized. Astrology, for instance, is falsifiable — indeed, it has been falsified ad nauseam — and yet it isn’t science." You could say the same for phlogiston or N-rays. Falsifiable hypotheses that actually ge…
It is a demarcation criterion. Falsifiability is definitely a very good attribute but it is necessary, not sufficient.
Re: Physicists and Philosophers Debate the Boundaries of Science
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
You've actually summarized the article in your comment!
Except the question remains unanswered. "Untestable" is basically a grey area. There's " untestable right this minute, but in 5, 10 or 20 years it will be testable ", then there's " we can probably test it in 100 or so years... " then there's the " it would take 1,000 years or more (maybe never) to test it ". Theories like String Theory tend to fall into the first, possibly dabbling with the second option. Researcher…
If you mean we're going to be hearing about the Many Mystical Worlds of Quantum Physics from Deepak Chopra types for the next 1,000 years, I'd say "not very" is a reasonable answer.
Re: Physicists and Philosophers Debate the Boundaries of Science
#60Also, physicist have proposed some experiments and observation such as regarding the cosmic microwave background radiation. There is a book called "The Trouble with Physics" and many articles on the subject. There is something to be said about many claims in theoretical physics and the lack of testability but I think this is not rigorous enough and too loose with the labeling.